Citizenship for grandchildren of Spaniards, New provisions

Annie · Post by **Annie** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:33 pm

I am wondering if I am eligible for Spanish citizenship under the "Law of Grandchildren" I understand that there are new provisions that just went into effect in Dec 2008 but I am unclear as to what those provisions are and whether they would apply to me. My grandfather (born in Spain) left Spain for Cuba prior to the Spanish Civil War. Would I be eligible for citizenship? I read (link below) that the first Cuban given Spanish citizenship under this new law last week was the grandson of a Spaniard who came to Cuba in the early 1900s (which would make it prior to the Civil War).

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/america ... 30752.html

Thanks,

Annie

Post by **Art** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:21 am

Welcome, Annie!

I think the grandparents of most of the Asturian-Americans on this forum came before the Civil War, like your grandparents, so that is an interesting article.

Would you want to move to Spain?

I haven't seen the regulations yet. Perhaps Bob will have something to add from what he's been reading.

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¡Bienvenido, Annie!

Creo que los abuelos de la mayoría de los astur-americanos en este foro llegaron antes de la Guerra Civil, al igual que tus abuelos, de modo que es un artículo interesante.

¿Querrías mudarte a España?

No he visto aún los reglamentos. Tal vez Bob tendrá algo que añadir de lo que ha sido leyendo.

Annie · Post by **Annie** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:29 pm

Hi Art.

Thanks for your reply. This is a very confusing matter and I've been doing a lot of reading on it, trying to figure out whether the new law will apply to me. I was looking through the "Hijos y Nietos de Espanoles" forum and found a lot of information. Then I went directly to the "Gobierno de Espana" website and read through the very lengthy (and very lofty Castillian) "Ley 52/2007" and the new provision. In the new provision added in Dec 2008, I found this which leads me to believe that as a granddaughter of a Spaniard born in Spain who emigrated and kept his Spanish nationality at the time my mother was born (in Cuba), I am eligible. And no, I don't want to move to Spain. For me it's just about identity and heritage. Here is the passage:

II. Personas que pueden ejercitar el derecho de opción a la nacionalidad española reconocido por la Disposición Adicional séptima de la Ley 52/2007

1.º Apartado 1 de la Disposición Adicional séptima de la Ley 52/2007: Establece el apartado citado que «las personas cuyo padre o madre hubiese sido originariamente español podrán optar a la nacionalidad española de origen si formalizan su declaración en el plazo de dos años desde la entrada en vigor de la presente Disposición Adicional. Dicho plazo podrá ser prorrogado por Acuerdo de Consejo de Ministros hasta el límite de un año».

De tal modo, el apartado citado acoge sujetos hasta ahora excluidos y, en particular, beneficia a los nietos de los emigrantes cuyos hijos (del emigrante) ya nacieron en el extranjero, siempre que el hijo (del emigrante) naciera antes de la pérdida de la nacionalidad española del emigrante.

Es más amplio que el artículo 20.1.b) del Código Civil, dado que no requiere el nacimiento en España del progenitor y, además, la nacionalidad española que se obtiene por esta vía está cualificada como nacionalidad de origen. Sin embargo, su vigencia es temporal al quedar restringido su ejercicio al plazo -prorrogable- de dos años.

Cheers,

Annie

Post by **Art** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:35 pm

Ah, thanks, that's good to see. I hadn't looked into this since the regs were published.

Do you know what the steps to apply are? Is there a cost?

I suspect that there are two reasons for making this law. One is that it could potentially increase the number of Spaniards, which may be seen as important given the declining birth rate. The other is that it could create a whole class of grateful voters who will be thus motivated to keep supporting the parties in power.

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Ah, gracias, es útil verla. No la había estudiado desde la regulaciones se publicaron.

¿Sabes cuales pautas que tenemos a seguir para solicitar la nationalidad? ¿Hay algún costo?

Sospecho de que hay dos razones para hacer esta ley. Una es que podrían aumentar el número de españoles, lo que puede ser visto como importante dada la disminución de la natalidad. La otra es que podría crear una clase nueva de votantes que se agradece, por tanto ser motivadas para continuar apoyando a los partidos en el poder.

Annie · Post by **Annie** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:58 pm

I am inclined to believe that the latter supposition is correct. Maybe I'm just a cynic.

I do not know the steps I need to take yet. I haven't looked closely at the requirements or documents needed but I am gathering my grandfather's documents from the Spanish consulate in Miami and I will probably need my mother's birth certificate. I am in San Francisco so I do not expect to encounter a long queue for an appointment. I do not know the cost.

I will keep you posted as I gather more information.

Cheers,

Annie

is · Post by is » Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:04 pm

Art wrote:I suspect that there are two reasons for making this law. One is that it could potentially increase the number of Spaniards, which may be seen as important given the declining birth rate. The other is that it could create a whole class of grateful voters who will be thus motivated to keep supporting the parties in power.

Interesting. But I think there is also a measure of restitution involved, with the Spanish government acknowledging that former citizens had to emigrate against their will.

The demographic reason is certainly very true. The Spanish Army, for example, has been short of recruits. It has been pitching Ecuadorian and Peruvian immigrants to join Spain's international peace-keeping forces in Afghanistan. Much like ROTC recruiters hang out in disadvantaged neighborhoods.

And the 'creation of new constituents' idea is also there lurking in the background. Like the Asturian government goes fishing for votes in Brussels and Buenos Aires during elections in the Principau, the Spanish central government vies for future voters.

Overall, however, I think it's a good thing to grant citizenship in order to redress past mistakes.

Post by **Art** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:51 pm

You've exposed my cynicism, Is! You're right that restitution would be an honorable motive.

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¡Has expuesto mi cinismo, Is! Tienes razón de que una restitución sería un motivo honorable.

Terechu · Post by **Terechu** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:00 am

Annie, you are definitely eligible for citizenship, in fact it is estimated that almost 6 mill. Cubans are eligible, as grandchildren of Spanish-born citizens.
I hear there are huge lines outside the Spanish Consulate General in Havanna, as people are queing up to get their Spanish (EU) passports, because a passport from any European Union country will allow them to leave Cuba and enter THE USA without a Visa.

For more info, contact the Spanish Consulate General nearest you.

Annie · Post by **Annie** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:21 pm

Hi Terechu.

That's good news. I'm in San Francisco so I don't expect huge lines at the consulate.
Oh, I noticed you're in Gijon. Can you recommend some good restaurants over there? My husband and I are traveling through northern Spain this summer and we will be passing through Asturias. I hope to reunite with my family over there.

Thanks,

Annie

Terechu · Post by **Terechu** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:01 pm

Hi Annie

Here's an article on this topic, to include a very good photo of the long queue in front of the Consulate in Havanna last week.

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/espana/d ... unac_6/Tes

There's lots of restaurants in Gijón, from very expensive to very reasonable, and they will hopefully all survive the crisis. You will find the most typical regional cuisine in the "Sidrerías" or "chigres". Get back in touch about a month before you start your trip and I'll try to get a comprehensive list.

Take care

Annie · Post by **Annie** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:12 pm

Terechu,

Thank you for the recommendations. Now I know why the Cuban obsession with sidra at Christmastime.

I didn't know it was THE drink of Asturias.

Cheers,

Annie

Annie · Post by **Annie** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 1:30 pm

Art,

It seems that in order for me to qualify, my grandfather must have retained his spanish nationality at the time of my mother's birth (according to the new provisions). It is unclear whether that was the case. My mother's birth certificate states that she was born to "Alfonso Constantino Gutierrez y Cantera, natural de Burgos, Espana" but does not state whether he was still a Spanish citizen or a Cuban citizen at the time of her birth. There is another document that my mother recovered from his belongings that states that he recuperated his Spanish nationality in 2004 as he had to renounce it in 1988 when he became a US citizen. I will contact the consulate in San Francisco to see what documentation they require and whether they will accept the above documents as sufficient. I also understand that the group "Hijos y Nietos de Espanoles para la Ciudadania" is pushing to extend citizenship to grandchildren who's grandparents left Spain prior to the war/Franco and who may have had to renounce their Spanish citizenship prior to the birth of their children. That would solve the problem.

Are you also trying to claim citizenship?

I'll keep you posted.

Happy Weekend!

Annie

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:05 pm

i would first try to get the Cuban papers. If that does not work, or does not meet your needs, the current position of the US State Dpartment is that one does not have to renouce another citizenship to gain American citizenship, so I would then check with them (triple citizenship - Spanish, Cuban and American - may be aother issue).

Yes, quite a few of us are trying to add Spansh citizenship to our American citizenship.

Post by **Art** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:59 am

Bob wrote:... the current position of the US State Dpartment is that one does not have to renouce another citizenship to gain American citizenship....

Bob, do you have a reference for that? I've seen varying answers. This would be great news.

Annie · Post by **Annie** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 7:51 pm

Hi everyone.

From what I understand, you can have dual citizenship as an American citizen.

As for my quest for Spanish citizenship, I've hit a dead end. It turns out that my grandfather obtained Cuban citizenship prior to my mother being born which means that he must have renounced his Spanish citizenship as, from my understanding, neither Spain nor Cuba recognized dual citizenship. I found documents showing that he recovered his Spanish citizenship when he renounced his Cuban citizenship after coming to the US. Then a few years later, he had to renounce his Spanish citizenship once again to become a US citizen. However, he clearly wanted to die a Spanish citizen as he recovered it again in 2004 when the US began to recognize both. It is obvious that he was a Spaniard at heart, and, if he could have, he would have kept his Spanish citizenship throughout his life. I understand that Hijos y Nietos de Espanoles para la Ciudadania are lobbying the Spanish government to extend the law to those grandchildren (like me) who are excluded. Let's see...

Cheers,

Annie