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LoginFrench Surnames in Asturias ?
Moderators: svgev, Maria Garcia Alvarez, Moderators
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El Tampeno
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French Surnames in Asturias ?
I remember several Asturiano families in Tampa with French-sounding surnames such as..........Godinet, Charbonnier and Petit......can anyone offer a historical explanation and/or any other feed-back ? Any similar observations from other Asturiano-Americans from other parts of USA?
Tony Carreno/Tampa Florida
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Carlos
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French surnames
Hi.
I don't know if the Asturian-Americans that you mentioned have French surnames as results of mixed marriages between families from Asturian and French origines in the USA, or alternatively, if those inmigrants have French surnames directly from Asturies.
In the Middle Age, the pilgrinages to Santiago de Compostela favorised a big populational stream from all Western Europe, and particularly from the territories today called France. Words as "ser franco, paso franco, franquicia", are reminiscences of settlementes of people from French origin. Occitanian language traces are detectables in the Fuero de Avilés, for example, a kind of Privilege Chart written in old Asturian with some Occitanian words. A complete quartier from old Oviedo was called "from Gascony", today Gascona Street. There are some name places as El Franco, in Western Asturias. There was an intentional policy by the Asturian and Leonese Kings to favorise French settlements, and this was the cause of the Fueros or Privilege Charts, to better developpement of commerce and artisanal manufactures. The context of Asturias and León Kingdoms, later also Castile, Pamplona-Navarre, etc, was the geographical isolement in the North of the Iberian Peninsula, all the southern part being Moors enemies.
This is the origin of some French surnames as Durán (Durand), Brito, Bretón, Gascón, etc.
Later, in modern times, when Asturian industrialisation begun, there were a lot of foreign engineers, investors, etc, which developped Asturian industry. Many of these people were mainly from French, Belgian, German, Austrian and Italian origines. Those people are not so numberous as in the Middle Age, but some of them settled definitively in Asturias and became Asturians. For example, the football stadium's name in Oviedo is Tartiere, from Carlos Tartiere Lenegre. The Teberga Council correspondant for the Asturian newspaper La Nueva España is Mr. Celso Peyroux. A well-know socialist politician in Oviedo is Mistress Covadonga Bertrand Baschwitz, and so.
Saludinos.
I don't know if the Asturian-Americans that you mentioned have French surnames as results of mixed marriages between families from Asturian and French origines in the USA, or alternatively, if those inmigrants have French surnames directly from Asturies.
In the Middle Age, the pilgrinages to Santiago de Compostela favorised a big populational stream from all Western Europe, and particularly from the territories today called France. Words as "ser franco, paso franco, franquicia", are reminiscences of settlementes of people from French origin. Occitanian language traces are detectables in the Fuero de Avilés, for example, a kind of Privilege Chart written in old Asturian with some Occitanian words. A complete quartier from old Oviedo was called "from Gascony", today Gascona Street. There are some name places as El Franco, in Western Asturias. There was an intentional policy by the Asturian and Leonese Kings to favorise French settlements, and this was the cause of the Fueros or Privilege Charts, to better developpement of commerce and artisanal manufactures. The context of Asturias and León Kingdoms, later also Castile, Pamplona-Navarre, etc, was the geographical isolement in the North of the Iberian Peninsula, all the southern part being Moors enemies.
This is the origin of some French surnames as Durán (Durand), Brito, Bretón, Gascón, etc.
Later, in modern times, when Asturian industrialisation begun, there were a lot of foreign engineers, investors, etc, which developped Asturian industry. Many of these people were mainly from French, Belgian, German, Austrian and Italian origines. Those people are not so numberous as in the Middle Age, but some of them settled definitively in Asturias and became Asturians. For example, the football stadium's name in Oviedo is Tartiere, from Carlos Tartiere Lenegre. The Teberga Council correspondant for the Asturian newspaper La Nueva España is Mr. Celso Peyroux. A well-know socialist politician in Oviedo is Mistress Covadonga Bertrand Baschwitz, and so.
Saludinos.
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Terechu
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Tony,
If you look at a map you'll see that the French port of La Rochelle is right across the Bay of Biscay. There has always been a very busy trade between the sea ports on the Bay of Biscay/Mar Cantábrico and the French and English ports. Among the major shipping agents in Asturias are the Paquet family, for instance.
Like Carlos says, when industrialization started around 1845, people from all over Europe settled here, among the most outstanding were the Frenchman Numa Guilhou, the Swede Magnus Blikstad, the German Wilhelm "Guillermo" Schulz and the Italian Count Sizzo, with his troup of Italian master smelters, and after World War I more folks kept coming, like the German-Jewish brewer family Bauer, etc.
Even so, we are not as international as it may seem
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Si miras un mapa verás que el puerto francés de La Rochelle está justo enfrente, al otro lado del Mar Cantábrico. Siempre ha habido mucho comercio entre los puertos del Cantábrico y los puertos franceses e ingleses. Entre los principales consignatarios de buques de Asturias, por ejemplo, se encuentra la familia Paquet.
Como dice carlos, cuando se inició la industrialización alrededor de 1845, se asentó aquí gente de toda Europa, entre los más destacados estaban el francés Numa Guilhou, el sueco Magnus Blikstad, el alemán Guillermo Schulz y el italiano Conde Sizzo, con su tropa de maestros fundidores; y después de la Primera Guerra Mundial la gente seguía viniendo, como la familia de cerveceros judeo-alemanes Bauer, etc.
Pero aún así, no somos tan internacionales como parecemos
Saludos
Terechu
If you look at a map you'll see that the French port of La Rochelle is right across the Bay of Biscay. There has always been a very busy trade between the sea ports on the Bay of Biscay/Mar Cantábrico and the French and English ports. Among the major shipping agents in Asturias are the Paquet family, for instance.
Like Carlos says, when industrialization started around 1845, people from all over Europe settled here, among the most outstanding were the Frenchman Numa Guilhou, the Swede Magnus Blikstad, the German Wilhelm "Guillermo" Schulz and the Italian Count Sizzo, with his troup of Italian master smelters, and after World War I more folks kept coming, like the German-Jewish brewer family Bauer, etc.
Even so, we are not as international as it may seem
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Si miras un mapa verás que el puerto francés de La Rochelle está justo enfrente, al otro lado del Mar Cantábrico. Siempre ha habido mucho comercio entre los puertos del Cantábrico y los puertos franceses e ingleses. Entre los principales consignatarios de buques de Asturias, por ejemplo, se encuentra la familia Paquet.
Como dice carlos, cuando se inició la industrialización alrededor de 1845, se asentó aquí gente de toda Europa, entre los más destacados estaban el francés Numa Guilhou, el sueco Magnus Blikstad, el alemán Guillermo Schulz y el italiano Conde Sizzo, con su tropa de maestros fundidores; y después de la Primera Guerra Mundial la gente seguía viniendo, como la familia de cerveceros judeo-alemanes Bauer, etc.
Pero aún así, no somos tan internacionales como parecemos
Saludos
Terechu
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El Tampeno
- Posts: 56
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Franco-Asturianos (without the Arrogance)-JOKE!!
You guys are a treasure trove of information!!
The familes I referred to were definitely "right off the boat" from Asturias.....my grandmother's first husband with whom she left Spain in 1909 was her childhood sweetheart from her aldea..Villanueva de Pereda......his last name was "Petit". He died of yellow fever several years after their arrival in Tampa, unfortunately. His descendants still live in the same village (at least as of 1997, my last visit to Asturias).
Carlos, for whatever it's worth now, my educated guess at the answer was exactly what your are suggesting.....the peregrinos passing thru to Santiago de Compostela. I now wish I had said that in my first message....too late now!!
Terechu, as to your comments concerning your level of "internationalization".........on my last visit to Spain in 1997 I was shocked at how much more heterogeneous the population is now as compared to my first visit in 1974....more in the larger cities such as Madrid but also in Oviedo as well...I actually saw a Chinese restaurant in Oviedo............Wonton Soup with Fabada????
The familes I referred to were definitely "right off the boat" from Asturias.....my grandmother's first husband with whom she left Spain in 1909 was her childhood sweetheart from her aldea..Villanueva de Pereda......his last name was "Petit". He died of yellow fever several years after their arrival in Tampa, unfortunately. His descendants still live in the same village (at least as of 1997, my last visit to Asturias).
Carlos, for whatever it's worth now, my educated guess at the answer was exactly what your are suggesting.....the peregrinos passing thru to Santiago de Compostela. I now wish I had said that in my first message....too late now!!
Terechu, as to your comments concerning your level of "internationalization".........on my last visit to Spain in 1997 I was shocked at how much more heterogeneous the population is now as compared to my first visit in 1974....more in the larger cities such as Madrid but also in Oviedo as well...I actually saw a Chinese restaurant in Oviedo............Wonton Soup with Fabada????
Last edited by El Tampeno on Mon Dec 08, 2003 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
Tony Carreno/Tampa Florida
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Bob
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Fuero de Avilés
If anyone can post the text of the Fuero de Avilés in the section on the Asturian language, or post a link to the full text there, I would appreciate it very much. I understand that it is the oldest extant text in Asturian, and I would very much like to see it.
French glassmakers in Asturias
My gr-great grandfather, Arturo Criner was born in 1880 in Oviedo to a family of French glassmakers. His mother, Luisa Kopp, was a second-generation French woman who was also born there. It appears that there were several French glassmaking families that moved there when a new glass factory opened up. Later on, some of these same families moved to the United States.
Sorry for the confusion!
I am aware that Kopp is not a French surname. I actually thought that my Kopp ancestors might have originated somewhere in Germany, but I have only been able to trace them back to the year 1779 when they lived in France. The Kopp family lived there for many years before moving to Asturias sometime during the late 1850's/early 1860's along with several other French glassmaking families. This is why I said that Luisa Kopp was a second generation French woman who was born in Asturias.
I am aware that Kopp is not a French surname. I actually thought that my Kopp ancestors might have originated somewhere in Germany, but I have only been able to trace them back to the year 1779 when they lived in France. The Kopp family lived there for many years before moving to Asturias sometime during the late 1850's/early 1860's along with several other French glassmaking families. This is why I said that Luisa Kopp was a second generation French woman who was born in Asturias.
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Maestro Tomberi
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Rereading Carlos' and Terechu's messages from 2003, I wondered why foreigners were brought in to industrialize Asturias. Didn't this lead to the exploitation of the Asturian people and resources? And didn't this perhaps contribute to the continuing underdevelopment of the Asturian economy and Asturian entrepreneurial activity? There must be an alternative, even this late in the game.
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Releyendo los mensajes de Carlos y Terechu de 2003, me pregunté por qué los extranjeros fueron traídos para industrializar a Asturias. ¿Acaso conduzca a la explotación de los asturianos y sus recursos? Y esto tal vez contribuyan a la continuada falta de desarrollo en la economía asturiana y la falta de actividad empresarial asturiana? ¡No puede ser que no hay alternativa, aunque ya tarda mucho una intervención.
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Releyendo los mensajes de Carlos y Terechu de 2003, me pregunté por qué los extranjeros fueron traídos para industrializar a Asturias. ¿Acaso conduzca a la explotación de los asturianos y sus recursos? Y esto tal vez contribuyan a la continuada falta de desarrollo en la economía asturiana y la falta de actividad empresarial asturiana? ¡No puede ser que no hay alternativa, aunque ya tarda mucho una intervención.
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Maestro Tomberi
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Quizá tuviese que ver el hecho de que entonces, sobre todo franceses e ingleses, estaban industrialmente hablando (sobre todo después de las revoluciones) muy adelantados con respecto a nosotros.
Piensa también que del contacto con ellos se han traído además no sólo adelantos industriales y apellidos, sino también determinados usos y costumbres. Buenos ejemplos fueron el charlestón (ji ji ji ji ji); que fué algo pasajero, y el fútbol, que sin embargo vino para quedarse.
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Perhaps it had to do with it the fact that therefore; specially french and englishmen, were industrially speaking (specially after the revolutions) very ahead towards us.
Think also that from having contacted with them there haven't been brought here just industrial improvements and surnames, but also several various customs. Good examples of it were the charleston (giggle); which was a passing fashion, and football, which however came to stay for good.
Piensa también que del contacto con ellos se han traído además no sólo adelantos industriales y apellidos, sino también determinados usos y costumbres. Buenos ejemplos fueron el charlestón (ji ji ji ji ji); que fué algo pasajero, y el fútbol, que sin embargo vino para quedarse.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps it had to do with it the fact that therefore; specially french and englishmen, were industrially speaking (specially after the revolutions) very ahead towards us.
Think also that from having contacted with them there haven't been brought here just industrial improvements and surnames, but also several various customs. Good examples of it were the charleston (giggle); which was a passing fashion, and football, which however came to stay for good.
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Maestro Tomberi
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