Spanish Citizenship

Carlos Rafael Lopez · Post by **Carlos Rafael Lopez** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 4:51 pm

I would like to know if I qualify for Spanish Citizenship. My father was born in Spain, in Medina de Pomar (Burgos), so did my paternal grandparents. I was born in Cuba, and immigrated to the USA and I am now a Naturalized U.S. Citizen. I am on the process of retiring from my business and I am planning to reside in Spain. Can I obtain Spanish Citizenship by virtue that my father was born in Spain? If there is a possibility, can you please advise me as to the cost and an approximately length of time that the process may take. Also, I would like to know if my daughter, who was born in the U.S.A., can also obtain Spanish Citizenship by the virtue of her grandfather being born in Spain?
Also, what ramifications are there regarding my U.S. Citizenship, What happens?
Thank you for any assistance in this matter. If you can provide me with the names of good spanish attorneys that specialize on this type of immigration matters, I would be gratefull.
Thank you.
Carlos

Post by **Art** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 10:32 pm

Hello, Carlos,

Your chances may be good. Read through this thread for more info:
http://www.asturianus.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=134
Don't stop too soon or you won't get it all.

My understanding is that dual citizenship isn't allowed officially, but that that governments haven't been pressing the issue.

I'd guess that your daughter will have a limited number of years to apply for citizenship.

Of course, we aren't legal experts.

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Hola, Carlos,

Quizás tus posibilidades estén buenas. Leído este hilo para más información:
http://www.asturianus.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=134
No deje de leer demasiado pronto o no lo conseguirás todo.

Mi entendimiento consiste en que oficialmente no permiten a la ciudadanía dual, pero que los gobiernos no han estado presionando la cuestión.

Adivinaría que tu hija tendrá unos pocos años en que puede solicitar la ciudadanía.

Por supuesto, no somos expertos legales.

Manuel A Gonzalez · Post by **Manuel A Gonzalez** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:48 pm

I am wondering if anyone has tried to apply for Spanish Citizenship based on their parents? I am in the process and I was hoping to speak to someone who has actually gone through the process.

Post by **Art** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:14 am

Hi, Manuel. Be sure to let us know how it goes. You may be the trailblazer in this!

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Hola, Manuel. Dinos cómo va. Es posible que seas el pionero en este asunto.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:26 am

Here's a website that may be useful:

http://groups.msn.com/nietosporlaciudadania

Post by **Art** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:53 am

Thanks, Bob, that's a helpful link.

From what I've read about the new law, the grandchildren of those who emigrated will not be given Spanish nationality.

Moreover, any US citizen who gains Spanish nationality would have to renounce their US citizenship in writing. In other words, dual citizenship doesn't seem possible.

Also, there is only a two-year window of opportunity under this law.

Please let me know if I'm reading this is wrong.

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Gracias, Bob, es un eslabón útil.

De lo que he leído sobre la nueva ley, no darán la nacionalidad española a los nietos de los que emigraron.

Por otra parte, cualquier ciudadano de los EE.UU. que gane nacionalidad española tendría que renunciar su ciudadanía estadounidense por escrito. Es decir, la ciudadanía dual no parece posible.

También, hay solamente una oportunidad de dos años bajo esta ley.

Dime, por favor, si estoy leyendo esto soy incorrectamente.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:58 am

I'm not sure. The website I wrote about contains many individual opinions of people from various countries, and they are not necessarily accurate. My understanding is that PSOE has promised to make grandchildren eligible for citizenship and that the renunciation of American citizenship provision would apply essentially only in cases that would lead to triple citizenship, but I could be mistaken. In my case, the rationale seems to be that my father was a Spanish citizen at birth because my grandparents were still Spanish citizens in 1917, although living and working in West Virginia when he was born. Therefore I am the son of a Spanish citizen.

While PSOE prevailed in the recent election, real power will require working closely with other parties, something that American politics is simply not used to. The new law was passed and promulgated last December (2007), but awaits approval of actual regulations for implementation, probably not until December of 2008.

In any event, I have begun writing for certified copies of my father's birth certificate, my grandparents' birth certificates, etc., in the hope of eventually achieving dual citizenship without the current one-year residency requirement.

The US dual citizenship thing, by the way, appears to have begun with Israeli-US citizenship, and was then extended to other situations. One of my friends has US-Irish citizenship, and travels on both passports.

I would deeply appreciate comments from our friends in Asturias as to the current political realities in relation to this issue.

Post by **Art** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 2:03 am

Hey, Bob,

Yeah, there's a lot of speculation on that website.

It's been a couple of years, but when I read about the previous law, my understanding was that if a child born in the US of Spanish parents did not apply for Spanish citizenship (or perhaps the parents acting for the child?), the child would not have citizenship, at least not automatically. At some point, I think in recent decades, an age-related deadline was put in place, so that a child of Spanish parents had to apply by a certain birthday.

When I checked, my mother did not have automatic citizenship. I don't think your case would be any different unless someone actually applied for your dad's citizenship.

As I recall, in prior laws there was a preferential treatment for grandchildren of Spanish men, as opposed to grandchildren of Spanish women. It appears that more recent laws are abandoning that male gender privilege.

I think it is primarily Spanish law that limits dual citizenship. Under the prior law, there were exceptions that allowed dual citizenship for citizens of certain countries (including Portugal, the Philippines, and Latin American countries). That may have been based on a Hispanic cultural affinity. US citizens weren't included in that exception. (Although there may be different kinds of citizenship, with different rules.) The little I've read makes it look like the same structure is being applied to the new law, too.

The US doesn't encourage dual citizenship, but it does allow it in many cases. Under US law there are, however, circumstances in which dual citizenship can be denied. You can lose your US citizenship if you voluntarily apply for citizenship in another country with the intent of giving up US citizenship. If the Spanish regulations require a written renunciation, I'd want to check it out pretty carefully with the US government. But if you get foreign citizenship automatically (as in the case of children who are born in the US to Spanish parents), you won't lose your US citizenship. This was all news to me. Here's the US Government source:
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_t ... _1753.html

I spoke with an Asturian friend last weekend who was denied dual citizenship. She had to give up Spanish nationality when she became an American citizen. As I understood it, what happened was that when her Spanish passport expired, she wasn't able to renew it. Perhaps her having worked in the embassy made it impossible for her to slip through the cracks undetected.

I'd be interesting to hear why Asturian-Americans want dual citizenship.

For myself, a large part of it is for reasons of pride and identification. I can also see how it would make it easier to stay in Asturias for longer periods. It would also make starting a business or working in Asturias infinity easier. Given my current family responsibilities here in the US, it seems less likely that I'll be able to move to Asturias permanently, as I had hoped. That would seem to decrease my need for citizenship. But life is unpredictable; my family responsibilities could change overnight, so it'd be wise to prepare just in case.

granda · Post by **granda** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 3:47 am

En respuesta a lo que Art ha escrito aqui una breve nota para decir simplemente que creo recordar, de mis tiempos de Estudiante de Derecho hace ya 15 anos....

Hay 3 modos de acceder por la nacionalidad espanola
1) opcion: vinculos de sangre o relacion con espanol
2) Residencia: Periodo de residencia en Espana.
3) Naturaleza: Medida discreccional cuando concurren circunstancias extraordinarias

- La ley espanola no permite la doble nacionalidad. La asuncion de la nueva nacionalidad espanola presupone la renuncia de la antigua. Eso supone que se puede tener una doble nacionalidad aceptada por uno de los gobiernos, pero no por el espanol. si habia excepciones con naciones de afinidad hispanica en las que creo recordar que es solamente en el caso de adquisicion de la otra nacionalidad en los que no se produce la perdida de la espanola y no al reves.

- Creo recordar que a la llegada a la mayoria de edad se podia optar por la nacionalidad espanola y que el plazo era de 2 anos

- No recuerdo que se diera preferencia al padre sobre la madre o viceversa. Eso seria anticonstitucional ya que afectaria al principio de igualdad.

Ahora estoy muy ocupado, pero prometo en par de dias confirmar lo anterior. De todas maneras las respuestas a todo esto se encuentra de momento en el Codigo Civil Espanol. Su titulo primero recoge la nacionalidad y como se puede acceder a ella.
He encontrado este link que espero que este actualizado a fecha de hoy,. http://civil.udg.es/NORMACIVIL/estatal/CC/1T1.htm

Perdon que no haya traducido el texto, estoy muy liado, pero prometo dedicar mas tiempo en unos dias. De todas maneras espero que haya servido de ayuda

Manuel A Gonzalez · Post by **Manuel A Gonzalez** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:36 pm

I contacted the Spanish Consulate in NYC and they were kind of vague with me and they suggested I fill out a form to see if I am eligible or not. My father was born in Spain and my mother was born in West Virginia but raised in Spain. When my parents got married my mother is listed as a Spaniard??

Three of my grandparents were born in Asturias and One in Galicia.

I sent a form to the Consulate in December that just asked where my parents and grandparents were born and my biographical information.

I still not have heard anything......I know things are slow in Spain so I guess I just need to be patient.

The dual nationality law in the US is a gray law sort of a ...don't ask don't tell idea...There are many US citizens that have other passports. The problem would come if I were in Spain under a Spanish Passport and a war would break out. The US Embassy would not help me.

I am thinking of retiring in Spain and buying property etc..I think it is better to have Spanish Citizenship if I do so.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:55 pm

For me, dual citizenship is all about having choices, options, as well as an issue of identity and pride.

Given the current world climate, the option of traveling on two different passports is a good thing to have. Given economic uncertainties, the option of retiring to Spain (or, for that matter, Europe in genera)l is a good thing to have. Also, having any European Union citizenship opens up the possibility of living and working in any other member country.

As to the slowness of the system, I think there is a significant time gap between the enactment and publication of the law and the enactment and publication of detailed regulations concerning that law. It probably won't filter down to the consulates for a year or so. Also, there is likely to be a flood of applications at present, given the change in the law that was published officially in December of 2007.

Carlos · Post by **Carlos** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:45 am

Manuel, the probability of a war in Spain or every other Western Europe country is simply remote. Retiring in here seems a good idea, but have Spanish nationality is not indispensable, there are a lot of foreign people that live here without trouble, depending only on the economic level and jobs.

I speak especially of the economic immigrants from some places as Latin America (Colombia, Ecuador...), former East countries (Poland, Ukraina, Russia, Rumania...), Northern (Morocco) and Sub-Sahara Africa (Senegal, Kenia, Nigeria...). It is sad to say this, but the problems come only to the poors, in a similar manner as in the USA.

Our national Health System is very appreciated by other developed countries as UK, whose retired live in Andalusia with the same health care rights as Spaniards.

In addition to this, statistically Asturies has the most lower index of criminality of all Spain.

Cheers

r_matiella · Post by **r_matiella** » Tue May 06, 2008 1:11 pm

This may be pushing it, but my great grandparents were immigrants from Asturias. Am I still applicable for Spanish citizenship?

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Tue May 06, 2008 6:18 pm

For starters, please see these posts on our website:

http://www.asturianus.org/forum/viewtop ... itizenship

You can follow some of the latest developments at the following Spanish language site:

http://groups.msn.com/nietosporlaciudadania

My impression is that great grandchildren are not included in the recent law, but that the more traditional routes to citizenship (which involve various lengths of residency in Spain) may remain open to you.