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You might want to check this out. Not too humble, if you ask me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_compound
DOÑA LETIZIA ORTÍZ, LA PRINCESA DE ASTURIAS
Moderator: Moderators
Ok.......
Al que Dios se lo Dios, San Pedro se lo bendiga!!!
Esa es la casa familiar, de toda una vida....es diferente de andar de hotel
de lujo en hotel de lujo por todo el mundo!
If the Lord gave it, San Peter must bless it!!!
That is the family estate....it is a different thing to be going from a luxury
hotel to a luxury hotel around the world!
Esa es la casa familiar, de toda una vida....es diferente de andar de hotel
de lujo en hotel de lujo por todo el mundo!
If the Lord gave it, San Peter must bless it!!!
That is the family estate....it is a different thing to be going from a luxury
hotel to a luxury hotel around the world!
Hmm. I don't see how they're different.
You said something like, "That's a different thing!" before, too. It reminds me of the kind of response I made as a kid when I was squabbling with my siblings.
Now I'd rather see clear examples and argument based on principles and values. Otherwise, discussions go downhill and few will want to participate.
----------------------------
Um. No veo cómo es que sean diferentes.
Dijiste algo como, "¡Esa es una cosa diferente!" antes, también. Me recuerda de la clase de respuesta que hice cuando era un niño cuando estaba peleando con mis hermanos.
Ahora preferiría ver ejemplos claros y argumentos basados en principios y valores. Si no, los debates van del mal en peor y poca gente quiera participar.
You said something like, "That's a different thing!" before, too. It reminds me of the kind of response I made as a kid when I was squabbling with my siblings.
Now I'd rather see clear examples and argument based on principles and values. Otherwise, discussions go downhill and few will want to participate.
----------------------------
Um. No veo cómo es que sean diferentes.
Dijiste algo como, "¡Esa es una cosa diferente!" antes, también. Me recuerda de la clase de respuesta que hice cuando era un niño cuando estaba peleando con mis hermanos.
Ahora preferiría ver ejemplos claros y argumentos basados en principios y valores. Si no, los debates van del mal en peor y poca gente quiera participar.
This is veering into territory of epiphenomenology, where subsequent outcomes have no relation to the original point of departure.
We've been through Ramon's characterization of Leticia/Letizia as 'elegant' to the anti-royalist position of Berodia, to Art's take on the near-divinity of Potus to my own opinions on the Bahraini royal family (the smiling Al Khalifas) and now it's the Bush family's retreat in Kennebunkport, Maine.
I agree with no one except Putin, who leaves you no choice but to agree with him. For the record, George Walker was hardly 'humble'. Other adjectives that come to mind are thick, dense, comatose. If Raquel originally meant 'simple', then I agree: Bush was simple.
Next thing we know we'll have someone in YouTube say 'Leave Bush/Leticia/Al Khalifas/Areces alone...after all they've been through!'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc
We've been through Ramon's characterization of Leticia/Letizia as 'elegant' to the anti-royalist position of Berodia, to Art's take on the near-divinity of Potus to my own opinions on the Bahraini royal family (the smiling Al Khalifas) and now it's the Bush family's retreat in Kennebunkport, Maine.
I agree with no one except Putin, who leaves you no choice but to agree with him. For the record, George Walker was hardly 'humble'. Other adjectives that come to mind are thick, dense, comatose. If Raquel originally meant 'simple', then I agree: Bush was simple.
Next thing we know we'll have someone in YouTube say 'Leave Bush/Leticia/Al Khalifas/Areces alone...after all they've been through!'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc
'And how fucking dare any one out there make fun of Britney? After all she's been through! She loves her aunt, she went through a divorce, she had two fuckin' kids, her husband turned out to be a user, a cheater and now she's going through a custody battle....'
ok.....
Yo llamo a una persona humilde si esa persona prefiere vacacionar en su
casa en vez de irse de viaje a lujosos hoteles...cuando esa persona
prefiere vestirse de cowboy y montar a caballo o cortar le#a...cuando esa
persona prefiere irse de pesqueria o de caceria en vez de estar vistiendo
ropa de disenadores italianos y su esposa ropa exclusiva e irse a Paris
de compras.....
Quizas algunos de ustedes prefieran llamar a una persona asi sencilla...
y no humilde....Ok....digamos una persona sencilla....que prefiere comer
BBQ con frijoles en lugar de comida francesa o un steak en NY.....
yo soy asi tambien....sencilla o humilde como les guste mas llamarlo.
casa en vez de irse de viaje a lujosos hoteles...cuando esa persona
prefiere vestirse de cowboy y montar a caballo o cortar le#a...cuando esa
persona prefiere irse de pesqueria o de caceria en vez de estar vistiendo
ropa de disenadores italianos y su esposa ropa exclusiva e irse a Paris
de compras.....
Quizas algunos de ustedes prefieran llamar a una persona asi sencilla...
y no humilde....Ok....digamos una persona sencilla....que prefiere comer
BBQ con frijoles en lugar de comida francesa o un steak en NY.....
yo soy asi tambien....sencilla o humilde como les guste mas llamarlo.
[Art: Dime se quieres que traduzca este mensaje.]
I looked up "humble" in a dictionary because we may have a definitional problem.
Humble, used as an adjective, has several possible meanings:
1. a. (in relation to oneself) having or showing a modest or low estimate of one's importance: I felt very humble when meeting her.
. . b. (in relation to an action or thought) offered with or affected by a modest estimate of one's importance: my humble apologies.
2. of low social, administrative, or political rank: she came from a humble, unprivileged background.
3. (in relation to a thing) of modest pretensions or dimensions: he built the business empire from humble beginnings.
Only 1.a. and 2 could apply to a person, except that 1.b. could apply to the behavior of a person.
Informal alternative: As mentioned earlier, there is an informal usage that doesn't appear in that list: humble in the sense of "simple. But Is, I think, was suggesting we might use it in this case as code for "not very smart" or "simpleton". This is something an earnest person might not recognize immediately. (Do correct me if I'm wrong, Is.)
Okay, so let's compare GW Bush and Obama on these possible definitions.
1.a. Do either demonstrate a modest or low estimate of their importance?
At this point in history, the President of the United States is by definition a person of ultimate importance. (If they weren't, we wouldn't be talking about them!)
But at least occasionally there are opportunities to show humility, as when Obama said that there were others more qualified for the Nobel Peace Prize. That's quite accurate and a gracious thing to say. I'm sure Bush has said similarly humble things. It could be said that his not being outspoken thus far on the policies of the new President is an act of humility.
1.b. Do the actions or thoughts of either man indicate that they may be "offered with or affected by a modest estimate of their own importance"?
I suspect this is the definition that Raquel was using. It's the hardest to pin down because we can't really know thoughts and motivations of another person, we can only guess (or insinuate, as people on the extremes tend to do). It's also fairly easy to fake humility. So I'm not sure there is any way to judge another on this type of humbleness.
Nonetheless, many people will see what they want to see. The telltale sign of this, though, is that they can't back up what they believe with facts. At best we'll hear irrelevant or unsatisfying explanations. In short, there's a lack of critical thinking. (Here's a page with definitions of critical thinking.)
2. Were either of these Presidents "of low social, administrative, or political rank" or an unprivileged background?
Yes, Obama had a very poor mother and grandparents and had little contact with his father. I see no political power, no wealth, no facilitative social connections, no privilege.
Bush, on the other hand, comes from a very wealthy and powerful family. Without his parent's and grandparent's social, political and economic status, without their connections, power, and wealth, GW Bush would never have had a chance to become President.
Okay, Bush went to his ranch for vacations. If I had a 1583 acre ranch with a 10,000 sq. ft. home, I'd go there for vacations, too. That's not what I'd call a humble home, although to be fair, he probably needed much more space than you or I would because he used the home to entertain visitors and to house his staff. Did you know that F-16 jets patrolled overhead when he was present? Going to the ranch certainly wasn't a discount vacation for taxpayers.
The Obamas have a home in Chicago. I don't know whether they have enough space for the necessary security features to spend time there, but if they did go there, they'd essentially be stuck in the house. I doubt that the Obamas would be allowed to work in their yard in Chicago. Visiting an urban house would not be not like going to a ranch with thousands of acres.
And lastly, the informal alternative: Could either person be described as "not very smart" or "simpleton"?
Certainly not Obama. Bush had that reputation, largely because he mangled the language and the facts when he spoke and because he was impatient and emotional when dealing with issues that required patience with complicated details and cool-headed thinking. But I don't think he was truly stupid. Did he have the smarts and personality to be a great President? I doubt it.
Some leadership roles, like mine here, are clearly humble. Being the President, it isn't possible to be humble and also be effective. They can be kind, generous and not lord their status over others, but the fact is that a President has great power and we elect them to wield just that.
I looked up "humble" in a dictionary because we may have a definitional problem.
Humble, used as an adjective, has several possible meanings:
1. a. (in relation to oneself) having or showing a modest or low estimate of one's importance: I felt very humble when meeting her.
. . b. (in relation to an action or thought) offered with or affected by a modest estimate of one's importance: my humble apologies.
2. of low social, administrative, or political rank: she came from a humble, unprivileged background.
3. (in relation to a thing) of modest pretensions or dimensions: he built the business empire from humble beginnings.
Only 1.a. and 2 could apply to a person, except that 1.b. could apply to the behavior of a person.
Informal alternative: As mentioned earlier, there is an informal usage that doesn't appear in that list: humble in the sense of "simple. But Is, I think, was suggesting we might use it in this case as code for "not very smart" or "simpleton". This is something an earnest person might not recognize immediately. (Do correct me if I'm wrong, Is.)
Okay, so let's compare GW Bush and Obama on these possible definitions.
1.a. Do either demonstrate a modest or low estimate of their importance?
At this point in history, the President of the United States is by definition a person of ultimate importance. (If they weren't, we wouldn't be talking about them!)
But at least occasionally there are opportunities to show humility, as when Obama said that there were others more qualified for the Nobel Peace Prize. That's quite accurate and a gracious thing to say. I'm sure Bush has said similarly humble things. It could be said that his not being outspoken thus far on the policies of the new President is an act of humility.
1.b. Do the actions or thoughts of either man indicate that they may be "offered with or affected by a modest estimate of their own importance"?
I suspect this is the definition that Raquel was using. It's the hardest to pin down because we can't really know thoughts and motivations of another person, we can only guess (or insinuate, as people on the extremes tend to do). It's also fairly easy to fake humility. So I'm not sure there is any way to judge another on this type of humbleness.
Nonetheless, many people will see what they want to see. The telltale sign of this, though, is that they can't back up what they believe with facts. At best we'll hear irrelevant or unsatisfying explanations. In short, there's a lack of critical thinking. (Here's a page with definitions of critical thinking.)
2. Were either of these Presidents "of low social, administrative, or political rank" or an unprivileged background?
Yes, Obama had a very poor mother and grandparents and had little contact with his father. I see no political power, no wealth, no facilitative social connections, no privilege.
Bush, on the other hand, comes from a very wealthy and powerful family. Without his parent's and grandparent's social, political and economic status, without their connections, power, and wealth, GW Bush would never have had a chance to become President.
Okay, Bush went to his ranch for vacations. If I had a 1583 acre ranch with a 10,000 sq. ft. home, I'd go there for vacations, too. That's not what I'd call a humble home, although to be fair, he probably needed much more space than you or I would because he used the home to entertain visitors and to house his staff. Did you know that F-16 jets patrolled overhead when he was present? Going to the ranch certainly wasn't a discount vacation for taxpayers.
The Obamas have a home in Chicago. I don't know whether they have enough space for the necessary security features to spend time there, but if they did go there, they'd essentially be stuck in the house. I doubt that the Obamas would be allowed to work in their yard in Chicago. Visiting an urban house would not be not like going to a ranch with thousands of acres.
And lastly, the informal alternative: Could either person be described as "not very smart" or "simpleton"?
Certainly not Obama. Bush had that reputation, largely because he mangled the language and the facts when he spoke and because he was impatient and emotional when dealing with issues that required patience with complicated details and cool-headed thinking. But I don't think he was truly stupid. Did he have the smarts and personality to be a great President? I doubt it.
Some leadership roles, like mine here, are clearly humble. Being the President, it isn't possible to be humble and also be effective. They can be kind, generous and not lord their status over others, but the fact is that a President has great power and we elect them to wield just that.
WOW!!!!
Alabao !!!!
No me gustan las comparaciones, todas las personas son diferentes, cada
cual tiene su gracia o simpatia, ademas el idioma Espanol tiene traducciones muy diferentes segun el pais donde se hable.
Ahora, si quiero aclarar que no es lo mismo irse de vacaciones en su propio pueblo, en su propia casa, que irse de vacaciones y de compras
a Paris, el costo puede ser el mismo, pero el gusto de las personas es
lo que hace la diferencia, quizas los que vayan a Paris constantemente
tengan un ego que les exija querer llamar la atencion.
Tengo amigas que van religiosamente a Paris de vacaciones y alli hacen
sus compras, regresan muertas de cansancio....yo me voy religiosamente
de vacaciones a los Cayos de la Florida a Marco Island en la Florida,
o a Miami Beach tambien aqui, las playas fabulosas y disfruto de la pesqueria, de las fabulosas puestas del sol, visito galerias de arte, me voy
de compras y regreso de mis vacaciones feliz, con un bronceado
fabuloso y relajada, claro todas las personas son diferentes,
gracias a Dios y como vivimos en un pais libre se puede escoger libremente gracias a Dios tambien, a donde viajar.
No me gustan las comparaciones, todas las personas son diferentes, cada
cual tiene su gracia o simpatia, ademas el idioma Espanol tiene traducciones muy diferentes segun el pais donde se hable.
Ahora, si quiero aclarar que no es lo mismo irse de vacaciones en su propio pueblo, en su propia casa, que irse de vacaciones y de compras
a Paris, el costo puede ser el mismo, pero el gusto de las personas es
lo que hace la diferencia, quizas los que vayan a Paris constantemente
tengan un ego que les exija querer llamar la atencion.
Tengo amigas que van religiosamente a Paris de vacaciones y alli hacen
sus compras, regresan muertas de cansancio....yo me voy religiosamente
de vacaciones a los Cayos de la Florida a Marco Island en la Florida,
o a Miami Beach tambien aqui, las playas fabulosas y disfruto de la pesqueria, de las fabulosas puestas del sol, visito galerias de arte, me voy
de compras y regreso de mis vacaciones feliz, con un bronceado
fabuloso y relajada, claro todas las personas son diferentes,
gracias a Dios y como vivimos en un pais libre se puede escoger libremente gracias a Dios tambien, a donde viajar.
Re: WOW!!!!
Sí, estamos completamente de acuerdo en que cada tiene su gracia.Raquel M wrote:.... No me gustan las comparaciones, todas las personas son diferentes, cada cual tiene su gracia o simpatia....
Empecemos cuando escribiste:
Esa frase contiene un comparación implicita.Raquel M wrote:Yo no creo eso...los Presidentes Republicanos que hemos tenido han sido todos muy sencillos.
¡El otro lado de esa libertad, por supuesto, es que siempre hay alguien (tú en este caso) que quiere criticar esa decisión sobre donde pasar las vacaciones!Raquel M wrote:.... gracias a Dios y como vivimos en un país libre se puede escoger libremente gracias a Dios también, a donde viajar.
Pero intuyo que no quieres seguir con la discusión. Muy bien.
----------------------
Yes, we agree completely that we each have gifts.Raquel M wrote: [trans. Art].... I don't like comparasions. Everyone is different; each person has their own grace [gift] or likeable qualities....
This discussion began when you wrote:
That line contains an implicit comparison.Raquel M wrote:I don't think so... the Republican Presidents we had were very humble.
The flip side of this freedom, of course, is that someone (you in this case) will free free to criticize our decisions about where to vacation!Raquel M wrote:.... Thanks to God and to the fact that we live in a free country, one can choose freely, thanks to God again, where to travel.
But I sense that you don't want to continue this discussion. That's fine.
OK
Art, yo no quise comenzar una discusion, solamente un comentario.
Muchas personas ( incluyendome a mi, ) encuentran que en momentos
de problemas en los mercados economicos no es para que un Presidente
viaje a Paris y se vaya la esposa de compras, realmente se hubiera visto
muchisimo mejor si el Presidente se hubiera ido de caceria a los Everglades o de pesqueria a los Cayos de la Florida, por eso digo que
cada persona es diferente y tiene diferente forma de actuar, que reconozco que hay que darle gracias a Dios que todos seamos diferentes
y se respete el hecho y que tambien hay que darle gracias a Dios que
estamos en un pais libre y que cada cual puede viajar a donde guste sin
importar el gusto u opinion de nadie.
Repito que deseo que el Presidente Obama triunfe en todos sus proyectos
para el bien del pais y de todos nosotros.
Muchas personas ( incluyendome a mi, ) encuentran que en momentos
de problemas en los mercados economicos no es para que un Presidente
viaje a Paris y se vaya la esposa de compras, realmente se hubiera visto
muchisimo mejor si el Presidente se hubiera ido de caceria a los Everglades o de pesqueria a los Cayos de la Florida, por eso digo que
cada persona es diferente y tiene diferente forma de actuar, que reconozco que hay que darle gracias a Dios que todos seamos diferentes
y se respete el hecho y que tambien hay que darle gracias a Dios que
estamos en un pais libre y que cada cual puede viajar a donde guste sin
importar el gusto u opinion de nadie.
Repito que deseo que el Presidente Obama triunfe en todos sus proyectos
para el bien del pais y de todos nosotros.
Re: OK
Bien dicho. Somos unidos en que los asuntos pendientes nos afectan todos.Raquel M wrote:Repito que deseo que el Presidente Obama triunfe en todos sus proyectos para el bien del pais y de todos nosotros.
----------------------------
Well said. We're all together in this, given that the problems we face affect all of us.Raquel M wrote: [trans. Art] I'll repeat that I want President Obama to succeed in all of his plans for the good of the country and of all of us.
omG !!!! Alabao !!!
Tumba catao y pon quinque !!!
( Traducido mas o menos del idioma " Cubano" : Apaga y vamonos ...
literalmente es : quita la electricidad y enciende la lampara )
Significa: La conversacion termino.
( Traducido mas o menos del idioma " Cubano" : Apaga y vamonos ...
literalmente es : quita la electricidad y enciende la lampara )
Significa: La conversacion termino.
Last edited by Raquel M on Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ok, Ok, Ok, Ok
Turn off the light, turn on the lamp
The real meaning : The conversation ended.
The real meaning : The conversation ended.