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I'm still not seeing any "right on" facts to refute the DOL's claims....
Meanwhile: Homeland Security at Work: We might not know where bin Laden is, but, by god, Cat Stevens isn't going to get into the country! http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... Sep21.html
Whew! That was a close one, huh?
2004 election in the US
Moderator: Moderators
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Bob
- Moderator
- Posts: 1774
- Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2003 3:54 am
- Location: Connecticut and Massachusetts
- asturias_and_me:
My thanks to all of you of every political persuasion for concentrating on the issues and on the campaign. There is food for thought in all your comments. We may not convince one another that our own views are correct, but the open dialogue that you have begun can help us all to better understand and respect one another.
Bob Martinez
Bob Martinez
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Ken Menendez
- Posts: 108
- Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 4:53 pm
- Location: Overland Park, Kansas (formerly from Spelter, WV)
- asturias_and_me:
Xose, looks like you have become a stand up comedian. Look out Jay Leno.
As for the "Cat" he should have kept his given name and not assumed a Musslin name that is on the Custom's hit list. Just think, if he hadn't been stopped and came into the country, the "Cat" could have used that to embarrass Homeland Security, and you far left wing liberals would have been up in arms (and looking for your savior, John Kerry, to come riding in on a white horse to rescue you). Also, did you see his costume when he was pulled off the plane. Hell, I wouldn't even boarded the flight if I had seen this character in line.
As for the Iraq war, in time you'll better understand. With Iraq in place, Syria and Iran will begin to feel the pressure as did Libya. The dollars will be nothing if it brings safety to the US.
Again, keep using the DNC stats, as does the liberal left wing New York Times columnists do. Like all stats, there a point in time, and each stat can be used for one's advantage to suit a particular situation.
No, Xose, I have to admit I do not watch CBS, NBC, or ABC. I do watch Fox, MSNBC and CNN. Newspapers, I read the New York Times, Washington Post, Pittsburgh Post Gazette, and a host of other papers on-line, plus our local paper and the Wall Street Journal. Try to daily.
Policially, I am a registered Republican, and as I said in a previous posting I was registered Democrat until the "nuts" took over during the Jimmy Carter era. Just as the Dixiecrats tried to railroad the Democratic party in the 1940's, and created upheavel then. Out of it came one great President, Harry Truman.
As for the "Cat" he should have kept his given name and not assumed a Musslin name that is on the Custom's hit list. Just think, if he hadn't been stopped and came into the country, the "Cat" could have used that to embarrass Homeland Security, and you far left wing liberals would have been up in arms (and looking for your savior, John Kerry, to come riding in on a white horse to rescue you). Also, did you see his costume when he was pulled off the plane. Hell, I wouldn't even boarded the flight if I had seen this character in line.
As for the Iraq war, in time you'll better understand. With Iraq in place, Syria and Iran will begin to feel the pressure as did Libya. The dollars will be nothing if it brings safety to the US.
Again, keep using the DNC stats, as does the liberal left wing New York Times columnists do. Like all stats, there a point in time, and each stat can be used for one's advantage to suit a particular situation.
No, Xose, I have to admit I do not watch CBS, NBC, or ABC. I do watch Fox, MSNBC and CNN. Newspapers, I read the New York Times, Washington Post, Pittsburgh Post Gazette, and a host of other papers on-line, plus our local paper and the Wall Street Journal. Try to daily.
Policially, I am a registered Republican, and as I said in a previous posting I was registered Democrat until the "nuts" took over during the Jimmy Carter era. Just as the Dixiecrats tried to railroad the Democratic party in the 1940's, and created upheavel then. Out of it came one great President, Harry Truman.
So, by your logic, it would have been okay to turn around ships from Spain after the Spanish-American war because the passenger's name was obviously Catholic and Spanish, say "Vallina" or "Menendez."
How can you justify a secret "hit list"? Crimeny, we're talking pure Gestapo here! Lists of people whose only crime is to be Muslim or have an arabic-sounding name? Re-routing planes and denying people boarding because their name is on some list that nobody can get off of because you're not told why you're on it? These are fascist tactics, and worse, they don't prevent terror attacks. (A fact made all too clear when the "shoe bomber" attempted to blow up a plane after legally boarding.)
I hope you didn't think that I implied that you didn't read the paper or watch the news. That was not my intention.
Again, the stats I quoted are straight from the Dept. of Labor. Are they "liberal left wing"? The last time I checked they were headed up by a Bush appointee.
Finally, what do you mean "with Iraq in place"? So far, we have substituted a mostly harmless dictator with chaos and anarchy, and created a bunch of new terrorists in the meantime.
It's obvious to those who have studied the British occupation of Iraq or Israel or the French occupation of Algeria that this war in Iraq is unwinnable. The best-case scenario, in my mind, is that U.N. peacekeeping forces keep a modicum of order in the larger cities, allowing elections to be held, and letting the outlying shite and sunni provinces self-rule (mind you, I don't like this outcome, it's just the best one I can see actually happening), the worst is a horrific civil war, culminating in an Iran-style, Ayatollah run fundamentalist state.
This dream of a stable, self-governing Iraq, friendly to the U.S. and acting as a stabilizing force in the mid-east is just that: a dream.
How can you justify a secret "hit list"? Crimeny, we're talking pure Gestapo here! Lists of people whose only crime is to be Muslim or have an arabic-sounding name? Re-routing planes and denying people boarding because their name is on some list that nobody can get off of because you're not told why you're on it? These are fascist tactics, and worse, they don't prevent terror attacks. (A fact made all too clear when the "shoe bomber" attempted to blow up a plane after legally boarding.)
I hope you didn't think that I implied that you didn't read the paper or watch the news. That was not my intention.
Again, the stats I quoted are straight from the Dept. of Labor. Are they "liberal left wing"? The last time I checked they were headed up by a Bush appointee.
Finally, what do you mean "with Iraq in place"? So far, we have substituted a mostly harmless dictator with chaos and anarchy, and created a bunch of new terrorists in the meantime.
It's obvious to those who have studied the British occupation of Iraq or Israel or the French occupation of Algeria that this war in Iraq is unwinnable. The best-case scenario, in my mind, is that U.N. peacekeeping forces keep a modicum of order in the larger cities, allowing elections to be held, and letting the outlying shite and sunni provinces self-rule (mind you, I don't like this outcome, it's just the best one I can see actually happening), the worst is a horrific civil war, culminating in an Iran-style, Ayatollah run fundamentalist state.
This dream of a stable, self-governing Iraq, friendly to the U.S. and acting as a stabilizing force in the mid-east is just that: a dream.
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Barbara Alonso Novellino
- Posts: 321
- Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2003 9:54 pm
- Location: Long Island, New York
- asturias_and_me:
"Finally, what do you mean "with Iraq in place"? So far, we have substituted a mostly harmless dictator with chaos and anarchy, and created a bunch of new terrorists in the meantime."
Please Xose don't tell me that you really think that Saddem Hussein was a "harmless dictator" I can't believe that anyone would think that.
Ask the Iraqi people how harmless this maniac was with his torture chambers, rape rooms, etc. Tell the families of all those who were thrown into mass graves!
By the way...I sincerely hope that they continue to profile people who travel. My daughter travels quite extensively, almost every week across this wonderful country of ours. Let me tell you again...Our Wonderful WTC was not brought down by caucasians, but men with Mideastern names and ties. If they have nothing to hide, then they won't mind being checked.
Come on Xose...
Please Xose don't tell me that you really think that Saddem Hussein was a "harmless dictator" I can't believe that anyone would think that.
Ask the Iraqi people how harmless this maniac was with his torture chambers, rape rooms, etc. Tell the families of all those who were thrown into mass graves!
By the way...I sincerely hope that they continue to profile people who travel. My daughter travels quite extensively, almost every week across this wonderful country of ours. Let me tell you again...Our Wonderful WTC was not brought down by caucasians, but men with Mideastern names and ties. If they have nothing to hide, then they won't mind being checked.
Come on Xose...
"If they have nothing to hide, then they won't mind being checked."
Whoa. I have nothing to hide, but I sure as heck mind unlawful search and seizure. I guess you won't mind when the FBI taps your phone without a warrant or keeps tabs on the books you buy or check out at the library? The founding fathers added these protections to the Constitution for a reason. That reason was to protect us from our own government. The Patriot Act eats away at these protections day by day, case by case.
And need I remind you that it was caucasian terrorists who killed hundreds of children in Beslan two weeks ago. It was also caucasian terrorists that took over a theatre in Moscow, resulting in a whole bunch of dead Russians. And it was caucasian terrorists who slaughtered thousands of Serbs, Bosnians, and Croats during their civil war? Does the name Timothy McVeigh ring a bell? Just another wacko caucasian terrorist. The shoe bomber? French. Caucasian.
Terrorism is not limited to Arabs, Barbara. Just because someone is Arab or has a Muslim name DOES NOT make them a terrorist. And it also doesn't void their civil rights under our Constitution.
We will never defeat all terrorists. And I don't know the answer to the question of how to best secure airliners. I do know that if we were serious about protecting our skies, we'd fund efforts to screen 100% of all baggage that goes onto airlines. We'd also quit searching little old ladies and focus on young men who look nervous or otherwise suspicious when they're boarding the plane, regardless of their race or last name.
As far as Hussein goes; don't give me that "we did it to help the Iraqi people" stuff. It's simply disingenuous. Of course he was brutal to his people, I'm not denying or excusing that. But if we went in to save innocent people every time they had a mean dictator, we'd have invaded Cuba, Burma, Tibet, North Korea, China, and half of sub-Saharan Africa by now. The Iraq invasion was about money and hubris. Period. You'll never convince me otherwise.
What was Hussien going to do to us? Make a mean face at us? Say something nasty about the President? He WAS NOT a threat to the U.S. in any way, shape, or form. The current Iraq, of our own making, is a threat. It's a threat to the stability of the Middle East, and is a new, prosperous training ground for terror. Not to mention the fact that it has diverted $200 BILLION that should have been used for real homeland security measures.
Whoa. I have nothing to hide, but I sure as heck mind unlawful search and seizure. I guess you won't mind when the FBI taps your phone without a warrant or keeps tabs on the books you buy or check out at the library? The founding fathers added these protections to the Constitution for a reason. That reason was to protect us from our own government. The Patriot Act eats away at these protections day by day, case by case.
And need I remind you that it was caucasian terrorists who killed hundreds of children in Beslan two weeks ago. It was also caucasian terrorists that took over a theatre in Moscow, resulting in a whole bunch of dead Russians. And it was caucasian terrorists who slaughtered thousands of Serbs, Bosnians, and Croats during their civil war? Does the name Timothy McVeigh ring a bell? Just another wacko caucasian terrorist. The shoe bomber? French. Caucasian.
Terrorism is not limited to Arabs, Barbara. Just because someone is Arab or has a Muslim name DOES NOT make them a terrorist. And it also doesn't void their civil rights under our Constitution.
We will never defeat all terrorists. And I don't know the answer to the question of how to best secure airliners. I do know that if we were serious about protecting our skies, we'd fund efforts to screen 100% of all baggage that goes onto airlines. We'd also quit searching little old ladies and focus on young men who look nervous or otherwise suspicious when they're boarding the plane, regardless of their race or last name.
As far as Hussein goes; don't give me that "we did it to help the Iraqi people" stuff. It's simply disingenuous. Of course he was brutal to his people, I'm not denying or excusing that. But if we went in to save innocent people every time they had a mean dictator, we'd have invaded Cuba, Burma, Tibet, North Korea, China, and half of sub-Saharan Africa by now. The Iraq invasion was about money and hubris. Period. You'll never convince me otherwise.
What was Hussien going to do to us? Make a mean face at us? Say something nasty about the President? He WAS NOT a threat to the U.S. in any way, shape, or form. The current Iraq, of our own making, is a threat. It's a threat to the stability of the Middle East, and is a new, prosperous training ground for terror. Not to mention the fact that it has diverted $200 BILLION that should have been used for real homeland security measures.
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Carlos
- Moderator
- Posts: 528
- Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2003 5:14 pm
- Location: Xixón
- asturias_and_me:
- Contact:
Hola a todos.
Llevo varios días siguiendo con interés todas vuestras intervenciones. Hay una cosa que me gustaría preguntaros o comentar. En esta discusión se está hablando mucho acerca de la seguridad de USA, de cómo vuestro país es víctima preferente de ataques de tipo terrorista (me refiero en el contexto de todos los países del planeta), incluso Ken llegó a hablar en algún mensaje de lo que él llama en nosotros, europeos, "anti-americanismo". ¿Alguna vez os pusisteis a comparar los USA con otros países del Primer Mundo? ¿Existe ese supuesto o real odio también con los demás países? ¿Existe un sentimiento "anti-Suecia", "anti-Noruega", "anti-Suiza", "anti-Italia"? ¿Qué os hace pensar esto? ¿Creeis que existe algún motivo especial de odio anti-americano en el planeta?
-------------
translated by Art
Hola to all.
For several days now I have been following with interest all your contributions. There is something that I would like to ask you or to comment on. In this discussion everyone is speaking a lot about the security of the USA, of how your country is the preferential target [victim] of terrorist attacks (I refer in the context of all the countries of the planet). In one message Ken even managed to write about what he called European "anti-Americanism". Have you ever made a comparison of the USA with other countries of the First World? Is this supposed or actual hate also directed toward other countries? Is there an "anti-Swedish" feeling, "anti-Norwegian", "anti-Swiss", "anti-Italian"? What makes you think this? Do you believe that there's some special reason [motive, cause] for this anti-American hatred [found all around] the globe?
Llevo varios días siguiendo con interés todas vuestras intervenciones. Hay una cosa que me gustaría preguntaros o comentar. En esta discusión se está hablando mucho acerca de la seguridad de USA, de cómo vuestro país es víctima preferente de ataques de tipo terrorista (me refiero en el contexto de todos los países del planeta), incluso Ken llegó a hablar en algún mensaje de lo que él llama en nosotros, europeos, "anti-americanismo". ¿Alguna vez os pusisteis a comparar los USA con otros países del Primer Mundo? ¿Existe ese supuesto o real odio también con los demás países? ¿Existe un sentimiento "anti-Suecia", "anti-Noruega", "anti-Suiza", "anti-Italia"? ¿Qué os hace pensar esto? ¿Creeis que existe algún motivo especial de odio anti-americano en el planeta?
-------------
translated by Art
Hola to all.
For several days now I have been following with interest all your contributions. There is something that I would like to ask you or to comment on. In this discussion everyone is speaking a lot about the security of the USA, of how your country is the preferential target [victim] of terrorist attacks (I refer in the context of all the countries of the planet). In one message Ken even managed to write about what he called European "anti-Americanism". Have you ever made a comparison of the USA with other countries of the First World? Is this supposed or actual hate also directed toward other countries? Is there an "anti-Swedish" feeling, "anti-Norwegian", "anti-Swiss", "anti-Italian"? What makes you think this? Do you believe that there's some special reason [motive, cause] for this anti-American hatred [found all around] the globe?
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Ken Menendez
- Posts: 108
- Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 4:53 pm
- Location: Overland Park, Kansas (formerly from Spelter, WV)
- asturias_and_me:
Xose, I just read your recent reply to Barbara. You are so off base and so far to the left that the Learning Tower of Pisa must look upright to you.
Apparently the killers who rammed planes into the World Trade Centers and the Pentagon were just a group of boy scouts from the Middle East meaning no harm to the U. S. or the western world. It was just an accident. Give me a break, Xose. About Hussein, just a harmless dictator just enjoying his "food for oil" brides from the UN, and meaning no harm to anyone. Pay no attention to the many warnings from the "girlymen" at the UN and it will just blow over. Kill your country men, especially the Kurds and others in Iraq, and no one cares. Leave it up to you Xose, and the world just go away. Bury your head in the sand, my friend, just like your liberal buddies did in the 1930's. Then it was called the America First Committe....void Hilter, just a little old dictator meaning no harm to us in the good old USA.
If Spaniards had manned the planes that created the horrible events of 9-11, and declared war on the USA, then I would expect to be stopped at every airport and train station in this country and Europe with my last name Menendez. It is unfortunate to go to this extreme, but I am but one and would need to be checked to help prevent carnage to hundred's of others. Even in WWII we did this to Italians, Germans and Japanese. It is extreme, but extreme measures are needed during a war, especially now that we are fighting a war without borders or nations (except for Iraq liberation), but of religion.
Since you seem to have all the answers, how would you prevent further carnage to our country from terrorist? How would you worked with the UN as it sat idly by after Hussein ignored resolution after resolution after resolution. Just pass another resolution, or take action? If you received, as did Bill Clinton, John Kerry, Sen. Jay Rockfeller, etc., information that tied Hussein to WMD's, and the UN inspectors couldn't find any (in the areas that Hussein allowed them to look), what would you have done? Would you really trust UN inspectors with knowledge that they did not have access to Hussein's many palaces, and other strategic locations, and the possibility the inspectors were not really being above board and honest with their work. Even John Kerry in his flip-flops on this issue has a hard time figuring out what he knew then versus what he knows now. Yesterday I was listening to the many comments by John Kerry on Iraq and Hussein from his speeches from 2003 until recently. He was like Bush on Hussein then and agreed. Now that he is the anti-war candidate, he has amnesia. No wonder the Kerry family crest resembles a pair of flip-flops.
I know I covered several subjects with this posting, but you, Xose, seem to cover more than one item with your ramblings, and one needs to respond as best one can.
Again what concerns me about most liberals is that they have a need to have the government assist them in life. Accept no accountability, its not my fault. It didn't work in the communes of Soviet Union or China. And if Socialism in Europe is so great, then why the high unemployment there. People do not want the government providing their clothing, how many children to have, what to eat and when, and so on. I am not callus, and accept the fact that there are times people need help as a safety net. I am not sure the Federal government is the best source for that. Give the Fed's money and our senators will spent it on "pork" programs to buy future votes. Very little of it filters down. Sometimes it is best to be state or country programs, or through churches or other local agencies. Keep the Fed's out of it.
Anyway, this will give you something to provide another posting.
PS, I will not challenge your stats from the DNC that were allegedly from the DL. As I said before stats have only meaning for what each of us is trying to convey to make our point. Stats change. See the unemployment rate today is approx. what it was when Clinton ran for office. You know for years when I first started working an unemployment rate of 5 to 5.5% was acceptable. Yes we can debate the quality of today's jobs vs. yesterday and so on, but we had retail then with min. wage and we have retail today. See what is a stat? What are the numbers, and how do we apply them?
Xose, back to your latte.
Apparently the killers who rammed planes into the World Trade Centers and the Pentagon were just a group of boy scouts from the Middle East meaning no harm to the U. S. or the western world. It was just an accident. Give me a break, Xose. About Hussein, just a harmless dictator just enjoying his "food for oil" brides from the UN, and meaning no harm to anyone. Pay no attention to the many warnings from the "girlymen" at the UN and it will just blow over. Kill your country men, especially the Kurds and others in Iraq, and no one cares. Leave it up to you Xose, and the world just go away. Bury your head in the sand, my friend, just like your liberal buddies did in the 1930's. Then it was called the America First Committe....void Hilter, just a little old dictator meaning no harm to us in the good old USA.
If Spaniards had manned the planes that created the horrible events of 9-11, and declared war on the USA, then I would expect to be stopped at every airport and train station in this country and Europe with my last name Menendez. It is unfortunate to go to this extreme, but I am but one and would need to be checked to help prevent carnage to hundred's of others. Even in WWII we did this to Italians, Germans and Japanese. It is extreme, but extreme measures are needed during a war, especially now that we are fighting a war without borders or nations (except for Iraq liberation), but of religion.
Since you seem to have all the answers, how would you prevent further carnage to our country from terrorist? How would you worked with the UN as it sat idly by after Hussein ignored resolution after resolution after resolution. Just pass another resolution, or take action? If you received, as did Bill Clinton, John Kerry, Sen. Jay Rockfeller, etc., information that tied Hussein to WMD's, and the UN inspectors couldn't find any (in the areas that Hussein allowed them to look), what would you have done? Would you really trust UN inspectors with knowledge that they did not have access to Hussein's many palaces, and other strategic locations, and the possibility the inspectors were not really being above board and honest with their work. Even John Kerry in his flip-flops on this issue has a hard time figuring out what he knew then versus what he knows now. Yesterday I was listening to the many comments by John Kerry on Iraq and Hussein from his speeches from 2003 until recently. He was like Bush on Hussein then and agreed. Now that he is the anti-war candidate, he has amnesia. No wonder the Kerry family crest resembles a pair of flip-flops.
I know I covered several subjects with this posting, but you, Xose, seem to cover more than one item with your ramblings, and one needs to respond as best one can.
Again what concerns me about most liberals is that they have a need to have the government assist them in life. Accept no accountability, its not my fault. It didn't work in the communes of Soviet Union or China. And if Socialism in Europe is so great, then why the high unemployment there. People do not want the government providing their clothing, how many children to have, what to eat and when, and so on. I am not callus, and accept the fact that there are times people need help as a safety net. I am not sure the Federal government is the best source for that. Give the Fed's money and our senators will spent it on "pork" programs to buy future votes. Very little of it filters down. Sometimes it is best to be state or country programs, or through churches or other local agencies. Keep the Fed's out of it.
Anyway, this will give you something to provide another posting.
PS, I will not challenge your stats from the DNC that were allegedly from the DL. As I said before stats have only meaning for what each of us is trying to convey to make our point. Stats change. See the unemployment rate today is approx. what it was when Clinton ran for office. You know for years when I first started working an unemployment rate of 5 to 5.5% was acceptable. Yes we can debate the quality of today's jobs vs. yesterday and so on, but we had retail then with min. wage and we have retail today. See what is a stat? What are the numbers, and how do we apply them?
Xose, back to your latte.
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Ken Menendez
- Posts: 108
- Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 4:53 pm
- Location: Overland Park, Kansas (formerly from Spelter, WV)
- asturias_and_me:
On Cat Stevens, the "Cat". He now goes by the name Yusuf Islam, after becoming a Muslim years ago. According to reports he was herded off the flight because the name he is using is listed with counter-terrorism organizations, to include our Homeland Security, as a person of "interest" who supports terrorist organization. Hammas is one of those organizations. The "Cat", or Yusuf, denies this allegation. Either the Cat has the same Muslim name as another individual (maybe) and therefore the confusion or he is one in the same. Is he a threat? I don't know. Who knows who is a threat. That's the trick to seem not to be, but..............
Homeland Security may be mistaken, or the "Cat" is a liar.
Homeland Security may be mistaken, or the "Cat" is a liar.
Ken,
Just because you can't prove any of your points or back up any of your discussions with fact is no reason to get personal.
You either didn't read my post or you couldn't understand it, since you think that I somehow excused the terrorists on 9-11. My point, since I apparently need to spell it out, is that racist policies do nothing to prevent terrorist attacks. It was Ben Franklin (a real left-winger, right Ken?) who said, "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." I completely agree.
I don't think you'll find too many thinking people today who think that the Japanese internment camps were a good idea. We're supposed to learn our lessons, Ken, not repeat them.
Hussein was not, I repeat, was not in any position to harm us. Hans Blix, the chief arms inspector for the U.N. repeatedly asked for more time, because he knew that the sanctions and inspections were working. Bush went full steam ahead because he had planned to do so BEFORE 9-11.
Please re-read my last post to find out why yes, Saddam was bad, but no, we didn't invade Iraq for humanitarian goals.
As far as protecting us from terrorists, the first thing I WOULD NOT do is invade a Muslim country that had nothing to do with 9-11 and give all different strains of extremists a common cause. To do so would be pure stupidity. Then I would work WITH the rest of the world to identify, locate, and arrest or kill those in charge of terror networks. I'd concurrently work to get rid of the poverty and destitution that spawns such fundamentalist hatred.
I've got to tell you, Ken, that I find it a bit hypocritical that someone who takes government assistance in the form of a social security check every month decries government assistance. Or is it okay for some people to get government assistance but not others? I don't understand that logic.
And I'm sorry, but I won't let you off the hook on the DOL stats. If they aren't correct, please back up that argument with some semblance of fact.
Okay Ken, back to your NASCAR.
Just because you can't prove any of your points or back up any of your discussions with fact is no reason to get personal.
You either didn't read my post or you couldn't understand it, since you think that I somehow excused the terrorists on 9-11. My point, since I apparently need to spell it out, is that racist policies do nothing to prevent terrorist attacks. It was Ben Franklin (a real left-winger, right Ken?) who said, "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." I completely agree.
I don't think you'll find too many thinking people today who think that the Japanese internment camps were a good idea. We're supposed to learn our lessons, Ken, not repeat them.
Hussein was not, I repeat, was not in any position to harm us. Hans Blix, the chief arms inspector for the U.N. repeatedly asked for more time, because he knew that the sanctions and inspections were working. Bush went full steam ahead because he had planned to do so BEFORE 9-11.
Please re-read my last post to find out why yes, Saddam was bad, but no, we didn't invade Iraq for humanitarian goals.
As far as protecting us from terrorists, the first thing I WOULD NOT do is invade a Muslim country that had nothing to do with 9-11 and give all different strains of extremists a common cause. To do so would be pure stupidity. Then I would work WITH the rest of the world to identify, locate, and arrest or kill those in charge of terror networks. I'd concurrently work to get rid of the poverty and destitution that spawns such fundamentalist hatred.
I've got to tell you, Ken, that I find it a bit hypocritical that someone who takes government assistance in the form of a social security check every month decries government assistance. Or is it okay for some people to get government assistance but not others? I don't understand that logic.
And I'm sorry, but I won't let you off the hook on the DOL stats. If they aren't correct, please back up that argument with some semblance of fact.
Okay Ken, back to your NASCAR.
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Ken Menendez
- Posts: 108
- Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 4:53 pm
- Location: Overland Park, Kansas (formerly from Spelter, WV)
- asturias_and_me:
my friend I draw SSN. Paid into it for over 40 years, and yes that is the program. Big difference between SSN you paid into versus government assistance that you did not pay into. You work, you paid into it, and you get a little back. That's the program that started way back before you and I were a gleam in our dad's eyes. Don't like it, write your Congressman (he has even a better retirement plan for himself), and I am sure he will dance you around, just as Bush and Kerry will do during this campaign. (see I don't believe either one has a clue on how to solve the problem, partly created by Lydon Johnson when SSN funds were diverted to general revenue, if my memory serves me correctly. Both candidates will dance you around if you have a dance card).
You are right about the Japanese interiment camps. Today we think they were wrong. After Dec. 7, 1941, the concept was not wrong. Far too many Japanese had too close of ties to the Emperor's thugs we were led to believe, and I'll buy that for a small portion of the California Japanese at the time. Just as there were a group of German Americans who support the Nazi's and Hilter. Don't remember the organizations name at this writing, but they were a real threat to our security in the late 1930's, early 1940's. Today, the Muslim world (the radicals) have declared war on us (that's you and me, my friend), and "our" Muslim friends, both in the US and in the Middle East (Syria, Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Saudi's and so on), have not prevented any attacks. Most support attacks on US troops in Iraq and support Hammas in attacking Israel. When was the last time you heard a Muslim living in our (and their) country standing up against terrorism. I haven't seen any full page ads, have you in Washington Post or Times???? Just make a statement in support of the US and anti-terrorism, and they might redeem themselves in most eyes. They can not because their religion wants an overthrow of the US and western culture and institute Islam governing rules for you and me. The latest article on the Brotherhood of Islam, or such name that eludes me at this writing, is one such organization (quoting the Chicago Tribune).
On the labor stats, I will go to the RNC for their info to challenge the DNC stats. Like I said, the numbers may be correct for the point in time as lagging indicators. But where is the slope going but up. Again, if your DNC numbers are correct for even September 22, 2004, then you need to keep in mind we are still suffering the effects of "our" Muslim friends from 9-11. They were right, what they did will have an adverse effect on the US economy as well as the world economy. Again, as I stated in a previous post my findings show the economy began to slow down in late 1999. Around mid-March, 2000, was the beginning of the end for high tech stocks and companies, especially dot coms. I am not sure even Clinton's economic advisors could have prevented this, nor Bush's advisors prevented the further erosion of our economy after 9-11. Now the trick is for the economy to further improve, and that will be difficult with the terrorist threat still lingering around. Solve that and you will begin to solve our economy.
I haven't heard from either candidate a single, solid, workable idea that is in writing and detailed and not just some hogwash b...s... In Missouri, the current governor went around saying he with Kerry could add 20,000 jobs in Missouri. He lost his bid for re-election, as no one bought off on that one. Again tell an audience what you think they want to hear. You see, even if you institute special tax programs for companies to help sell products and services overseas, the EU will get you for those programs as anti-competitive; set up embargo's on imported goods, and there goes your overseas markets. Difficult in a global economy. Let the Dollar float to its lowest level against the Euro and Yen, could stimulate more exports. Not sure of its adverse effect on your and my buying power. Could set up CCC camps or WPA, i. e. Roosevelt era, to put people to work. Maybe lets build more interstate highways. How about a dam or two. Logging camps could be fun. That will work for awhile. Is that a good us of our tax dollars, maybe.
It's a tough world out there in a changing global economy. How we long for the 1950's, except for that little war in Korea. Lot's of work, industrial type, and then along came a little wierd car, Datsun, I believe, and its been down hill ever since for the US industrial base. EPA rules have also helped close factories and coal mines. Its great we can now swim in the West Fork River near Clarksburg, WV; however, tell that to 500 employees of the M&H Zinc company plant there who lost their jobs in 1970 after a plant remodeling. Still not enough for the EPA. That was one of several reasons given for the plant closure. Coal mining employed lots of folks in WV; however, EPA set such tight requirements for the type of coal mined in WV that many mines had to close. Coal emitted too much sulfur, and lots of power plants and companies could not afford the "scrubbers" necessary to clean this grade of coal. Those are a couple of reasons Al Gore lost WV, with a state that is 2 to 1 Democratic. And now its a tight race between Bush and Kerry. Same issues that plague that state today. Add gun control of course. The NRA is large in that state.
On well, another day.
PS: I really don't like stock car or NASCAR racing. Not even lattes.
Golf and strong coffee for me.
You are right about the Japanese interiment camps. Today we think they were wrong. After Dec. 7, 1941, the concept was not wrong. Far too many Japanese had too close of ties to the Emperor's thugs we were led to believe, and I'll buy that for a small portion of the California Japanese at the time. Just as there were a group of German Americans who support the Nazi's and Hilter. Don't remember the organizations name at this writing, but they were a real threat to our security in the late 1930's, early 1940's. Today, the Muslim world (the radicals) have declared war on us (that's you and me, my friend), and "our" Muslim friends, both in the US and in the Middle East (Syria, Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Saudi's and so on), have not prevented any attacks. Most support attacks on US troops in Iraq and support Hammas in attacking Israel. When was the last time you heard a Muslim living in our (and their) country standing up against terrorism. I haven't seen any full page ads, have you in Washington Post or Times???? Just make a statement in support of the US and anti-terrorism, and they might redeem themselves in most eyes. They can not because their religion wants an overthrow of the US and western culture and institute Islam governing rules for you and me. The latest article on the Brotherhood of Islam, or such name that eludes me at this writing, is one such organization (quoting the Chicago Tribune).
On the labor stats, I will go to the RNC for their info to challenge the DNC stats. Like I said, the numbers may be correct for the point in time as lagging indicators. But where is the slope going but up. Again, if your DNC numbers are correct for even September 22, 2004, then you need to keep in mind we are still suffering the effects of "our" Muslim friends from 9-11. They were right, what they did will have an adverse effect on the US economy as well as the world economy. Again, as I stated in a previous post my findings show the economy began to slow down in late 1999. Around mid-March, 2000, was the beginning of the end for high tech stocks and companies, especially dot coms. I am not sure even Clinton's economic advisors could have prevented this, nor Bush's advisors prevented the further erosion of our economy after 9-11. Now the trick is for the economy to further improve, and that will be difficult with the terrorist threat still lingering around. Solve that and you will begin to solve our economy.
I haven't heard from either candidate a single, solid, workable idea that is in writing and detailed and not just some hogwash b...s... In Missouri, the current governor went around saying he with Kerry could add 20,000 jobs in Missouri. He lost his bid for re-election, as no one bought off on that one. Again tell an audience what you think they want to hear. You see, even if you institute special tax programs for companies to help sell products and services overseas, the EU will get you for those programs as anti-competitive; set up embargo's on imported goods, and there goes your overseas markets. Difficult in a global economy. Let the Dollar float to its lowest level against the Euro and Yen, could stimulate more exports. Not sure of its adverse effect on your and my buying power. Could set up CCC camps or WPA, i. e. Roosevelt era, to put people to work. Maybe lets build more interstate highways. How about a dam or two. Logging camps could be fun. That will work for awhile. Is that a good us of our tax dollars, maybe.
It's a tough world out there in a changing global economy. How we long for the 1950's, except for that little war in Korea. Lot's of work, industrial type, and then along came a little wierd car, Datsun, I believe, and its been down hill ever since for the US industrial base. EPA rules have also helped close factories and coal mines. Its great we can now swim in the West Fork River near Clarksburg, WV; however, tell that to 500 employees of the M&H Zinc company plant there who lost their jobs in 1970 after a plant remodeling. Still not enough for the EPA. That was one of several reasons given for the plant closure. Coal mining employed lots of folks in WV; however, EPA set such tight requirements for the type of coal mined in WV that many mines had to close. Coal emitted too much sulfur, and lots of power plants and companies could not afford the "scrubbers" necessary to clean this grade of coal. Those are a couple of reasons Al Gore lost WV, with a state that is 2 to 1 Democratic. And now its a tight race between Bush and Kerry. Same issues that plague that state today. Add gun control of course. The NRA is large in that state.
On well, another day.
PS: I really don't like stock car or NASCAR racing. Not even lattes.
Golf and strong coffee for me.
-
Barbara Alonso Novellino
- Posts: 321
- Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2003 9:54 pm
- Location: Long Island, New York
- asturias_and_me:
-
Terechu
- Moderator
- Posts: 1540
- Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2003 4:43 am
- Location: GIJON - ASTURIAS
- asturias_and_me:
Xose, you slipped there, buddy. SS pensions are something you are entitled to only when you contributed for so many years. It's not assistance, or welfare or charity. It's your legitimate and well-deserved right, for which you paid through your nose.
By the way, let's all cool down a bit.
----------------------------------------------
Xose, ahí te columpiaste, amigo. Las pensiones de la Seguridad Social son algo a lo que sólo tienes derecho si pagaste tus cuotas durante equis años. No es beneficencia ni caridad, es un derecho legítimo por el que has pagado caro.
Por cierto, bajemos todos un poco el tono.
Saludos
Terechu
By the way, let's all cool down a bit.
----------------------------------------------
Xose, ahí te columpiaste, amigo. Las pensiones de la Seguridad Social son algo a lo que sólo tienes derecho si pagaste tus cuotas durante equis años. No es beneficencia ni caridad, es un derecho legítimo por el que has pagado caro.
Por cierto, bajemos todos un poco el tono.
Saludos
Terechu
SS is a government run social program to help seniors in their retirement years. I am well aware that you pay into it (I do every two weeks). That said, SS is still a form of "welfare," in that many people (widows, for example) take out much more than they ever put in. Which, by the way, I am totally fine with.
I LIKE Social Security. I have no problem with my tax dollars going to support the elderly. I was just pointing out the hypocracy of saying that government welfare programs are for people dependent on the goverment, while at the same time happily taking a check every month.
If the conservatives have their way, Social Security will be allowed to go bankrupt, leaving millions of seniors in the lurch. Bush's program of letting people pay into private accounts instead of SS is the first step towards abolishing SS as we know it.
I LIKE Social Security. I have no problem with my tax dollars going to support the elderly. I was just pointing out the hypocracy of saying that government welfare programs are for people dependent on the goverment, while at the same time happily taking a check every month.
If the conservatives have their way, Social Security will be allowed to go bankrupt, leaving millions of seniors in the lurch. Bush's program of letting people pay into private accounts instead of SS is the first step towards abolishing SS as we know it.