Political discussions?/ ¿Discusiones politicas?

Post by **Art** » Wed May 26, 2004 1:43 pm

First a story. Right after the Spanish elections, in which the conservative government lost, I was in the post office here. The mail clerk, a young man in his 20s, saw that I was mailing something to Spain and said something like, "It's a real shame that the Spanish defeated their government. The terrorists won!"

I live in a conservative area, so his views are probably fairly normal. Still, in the US we don't usually have political discussions in the post office, so I was surprised.

Then again--as Suronda and Terechu have said-- *everything* is political. Maybe the truth is that we avoid telling others what we really think about almost everything in almost every situation. That's tantamount to being cut off from everyone. Who knows us? Who do we really know?

It bothers me that we have very few places where we can talk about these issues and learn from each other. Yes, we can talk with those who agree with us, and we can shout at those who don't, but neither of those do anything to promote positive change.

I had begun to discuss Iraq in the forum because I think it's important that we address the political issues like this. That's the only way we'll discover other perspectives and see our own foibles, and eventually come to a better solution. Still, it's difficult to discuss hot topics without alienating friends, isn't it?

Several forum members (my thanks to Barbara, Carlos, & Suronda) have contacted me about this problem. So I've removed my thoughts about the US-Iraq political situation from the forum until we have a chance to consider how to deal with this.

Instead, I have opened this new thread. I'm hoping we can talk about how we might discuss political topics without alienating each other. Is that possible? Is it even a good idea?

I would still be interested in hearing how our Asturian friends are thinking about the war now that your troops have left Iraq. But--you might want to email me rather than post your thoughts here, or wait to see how we resolve this issue.

Best wishes to all!
Art

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Primero una historia. Poco después de las elecciones españolas, en las cuales el gobierno conservador perdió, estaba yo en el correos aquí. El empleado de correo, un joven en sus años 20, vio que enviaba algo a España y me dije algo como, "Es una verdadera vergüenza que los españoles derrotó su gobierno. ¡Los terroristas ganaron!"

Vivo en una zona conservadora, entonces sus opiniones son probablemente bastante normales. De todos modos, en EU por lo general no tenemos discusiones políticas en el correos, entonces estuve sorprendido.

Por otra parte - como Suronda y Terechu han dicho - *todo* es político. Tal vez la verdad sea que evitamos decir a otros lo qué realmente pensamos sobre casi todas cosas en casi cada situación. ¡Esto es equivalente a ser cortado de todas personas. ¿Quién nos conoce? ¿A quién realmente conocemos?

Me molesta que tenemos muy pocos sitios en que podemos hablar de estas temas y aprender el uno del otro. Sí, podemos hablar con los que están de acuerdo con nosotros, y podemos gritar a los que no no son, pero ninguno de aquellos modos hace nada para promover cambio positivo.

Yo había comenzado a hablar de Irak en el foro porque pienso es importante que nosotros dirijamos los problemas políticos como esto. Esto es el único modo en que descubriremos otras perspectivas y veremos nuestras propias debilidades, y tarde o temprano vendremos a una mejor solución. De todos modos es difícil de hablar de asuntos calientes sin enajenar a amigos, ¿verdad?

Varios miembros de foro (mis gracias a Barbara, Carlos, y Suronda) se han puesto en contacto conmigo sobre este problema. Entonces he quitado mis pensamientos sobre la situación política de EE.UU. y IRAK del foro hasta que nosotros tengamos la oportunidad de considerar como tratar con esto.

En cambio, he abierto este "hilo" nuevo. Espero que nosotros podamos hablar de como nosotros podríamos hablar de asuntos políticos sin enajenar el uno al otro. ¿Es posible? ¿Esto es aún una idea buena?

Todavía estaría interesado en oír como nuestros amigos asturianos piensan en la guerra ahora que sus tropas han dejado Irak. Pero - podrías enviarme por correo electrónico (más bien que ponerlo en el foro) - o esperar hasta que resolvemos esta cuestión.

Saludinos a todos,
Art

Terechu · Post by **Terechu** » Wed May 26, 2004 2:04 pm

I just saw my post disappear after all my efforts to draft it so as not to offend anyone.

I would suggest that you lay down the rules and people who don't go by them should know that their posts will be removed.
It should be simple enough to express one's opinions in a polite way, mostly to allow other members to see aspects they have not considered about any given topic.

Terechu

Post by **Art** » Wed May 26, 2004 2:14 pm

Hi, Terechu,

Sorry about that. I was surprised that you and Sweeney had responded because I had tried to put my message in a hidden holding area so we could discuss how to handle political discussions first. I must have clicked the wrong buttons. I wish it hadn't gotten so messy.

We still have your message--and I suspect that we'll be posting it in a new forum area soon.

Bob will be suggesting some possible guidelines here briefly.

Please know that I value and look forward to learning what you think! I strongly believe that one of the best things about this forum is that we learn from people who have different perspectives. Asturias and the US are sufficiently different in culture, news media, and political situations that hearing each other can expand our ideas.

Saludos,
Art

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Hola, Terechu,

Lo siento. Estuve sorprendido que tú y Sweeney habían respondido porque yo había tratado de poner mi mensaje en una zona ocultada hasta que podríamos hablar como manejar discusiones políticas. Debo haber pulsado una botón incorrecto. Lamento que se hizo tan turbio.

Todavía tenemos tu mensaje - y sospecho que lo fijaremos en una nueva área del foro pronto.

Bob sugerirá algunas directrices posibles aquí brevemente.

¡Por favor sepa que valoro y tengo muchas ganas de aprender lo que piensas! Me parace sumamente importante que una de las aspectos mejores del foro es que aprendemos de gente que tiene perspectivas distinctas. Asturias y EU son suficientemente diferente en la cultura, la prensa, y situaciones políticas que oír el uno del otro puede ampliar nuestras ideas.

Saludinos,
Art

Ken Menendez · Post by **Ken Menendez** » Wed May 26, 2004 5:47 pm

I highly suggest we keep politics out of the Forum, rather they concern the US/Iraq war; refighting the Spanish Civic War; Spain's role in and out of Iraq; Spanish monarchy; or the upcoming U. S. presidential election. If you allow political discussions, with or without "rules", it is my belief you will lose control of this web site, possibly lose members, and/or develop hostile relationships between Forum members.

While it is always interesting in knowing what others think of any political situation, and we all have our opinions on today's issues, this will undoubtly be counterproductive for the Forum; thereby, losing its value as a resource that ties our Asturias/U. S. cultures.

Keep this Forum for what I believe was the intended purpose-- genealogy, culture of Asturias, and to develop ties between those of us who were born in the U. S. of families from Asturias. That's how it seemed to have started with discussions on areas in the United States that were heavily populated with immigrants from Asturias, such as Spelter (Ziesing) and Anmoore (Grasselli), West Virginia; Donora, Pennsylvania; and the St. Louis area. At least that is what interested me in this Forum.

Barbara Alonso Novellino · Wed May 26, 2004 5:47 pm

I think that Bob's idea of a separate political discussion area with guidelines for keeping it kind is a good idea.

This way, if you wish to enter such a discussion you can...there will be no surprise because you will know full well what it is going to be about. I really do believe that political discussion, from all kinds of people, is a good one but it should be separate from the rest of the Forum.

Thank you for addressing this issue...

Barbara Alonso Novellino

Post by **Art** » Fri May 28, 2004 9:53 pm

Bob has posted suggested guidelines here:
http://www.asturianus.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=578

Let's discuss this (there) and if we can mostly agree that it's a good plan, we'll open a new section for discussion of "hot" topics. If you've got any suggestions for making the plan better, tell us all there:
http://www.asturianus.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=578

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Bob ha puesto directrices sugeridas aquí:
http://www.asturianus.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=578

Vamos a hablar de esto, y si la mayoría estan de acuerdo que es un buen plan, abriremos una sección nueva para la discusión de temas acalorados. Si tienes algunas sugerencias para mejorar el plan, dinos allí:
http://www.asturianus.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=578

Barbara Alonso Novellino · Fri May 28, 2004 11:25 pm

I think that Bob's idea for a "Hot Topic" area is a very good one. I am sure that there are many who would like to exchange Political Views. In a specific forum I know I would.

As long as everyone follows the guidelines, there should be no problem. Unfortunately, sometimes left unchecked things like Politics can become very heated. Congratulations Bob for coming up with a solution.

Terechu · Post by **Terechu** » Sat May 29, 2004 3:08 am

Congratulations! I believe you have found the best to tackle this matter; separate political issues from other topics and apply strict rules. Discussions of any kind can be very lively and interesting as long as they don't become personal and offensive, and since we're all reasonable grown-ups we should be able to play by the rules.

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Felicidades! Creo que habéis encontrado la mejor manera para afrontar esta cuestión; separar los temas políticos de otros asuntos y aplicar normas severas. Las discusiones sobre cualquier tema pueden ser animadas e interesantes mientras no se conviertan en algo personal y ofensivo, y como somos todos adultos razonables deberíamos ser capaces de seguir las reglas de juego.

Ánimo.
Terechu

Post by **Art** » Mon May 31, 2004 1:53 am

Well, I'm assuming that all who cared have weighed in on the issue, and that a majority want to try the political discussion area. I'll set that up now.

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Bueno, supongo que todos a quienes le importa han intervenido sobre este tema, y que la mayoría quieren intentar una sección para dicusión política. Voy a establecerla ahora.

Post by **Art** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:21 pm

I have closed this thread so that we can discuss political themes in that section of the forum. See you there!

http://www.asturianus.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=48

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He cerrado esta linea para que podemos charlar de temas políticas en esa sección del foro. ¡Nos vemos allí!

http://www.asturianus.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=48