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I never really thought about this till one of Ron Gonzalez's comments sent me off on a train of associations, but I am wondering about how much education typical working class people got in Asturias in the 1890's and early 1900's. Both my grandfather and grandmother (born in Salinas in 1894 and Samartín de Laspra in 1895, respectively) were literate in Castillian Spanish (and, I assume, in Asturian, because they spoke it as their first language).
Was schooling public, private, church-based, done at home? If anyone has any information or insights, please post it in this thread.
Bob Martínez
Education and Literacy
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Carlos
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Bob, la enseñanza en Asturies en esa época no era algo privado, ni mucho menos que se realizara en la casa de cada uno. Existían las escuelas públicas de las aldeas, lo que hoy llamaríamos "escuelas rurales". Estas escuelas eran levantadas y costeadas, o bien por los ayuntamientos, o bien por los propios vecinos. De hecho, hay constancia de que en algunos lugares, como el concejo de Cangas del Narcea y cercanos, los vecinos procuraban contratar maestros mediante ofertas de empleo, maestros que solían venir de la vecina provincia de León.
También fue importante el papel de los "indianos", pues aquellos que conseguían hacer fortuna en las Américas solían después invertir en Asturies en obras sociales, tales como escuelas. Por ejemplo, las Escuelas Selgas, en El Pitu, concejo de Cuideiru, se deben a la iniciativa filantrópica de la familia Selgas.
Y otro tipo de iniciativa fue la emprendida por las primeras organizaciones aparecidas con la industrialización y el movimiento obrero. Los diferentes partidos y sindicatos obreros tenían unos locales propios, como locales específicamente pertenecientes a esas organizaciones, donde no sólo se daban conferencias, se hacían asambleas y otras actividades propias de la clase obrera, relativas a temas políticos o laborales. También se daban clases de alfabetización, se organizaban recitales de música o poesía popular, etc. Es decir, que las organizaciones obreras se preocupaban de elevar el nivel cultural de los trabajadores. Así era como funcionaban las primitivas "Casas del Pueblo", mayormente vinculadas a los socialistas.
También los anarquistas realizaban actividades parecidas. Otro ejemplo eran los llamados "Ateneos Obreros". Todos estos centros contaban con sus propias bibliotecas, por ejemplo.
Sólo más tarde fue cuando el Gobierno español tomó medidas de cara a instaurar el sistema de enseñanza pública, que poco a poco se fue extendiendo por todo el país, primero en las ciudades y luego en los pueblos pequeños. Aún así, había muchas desigualdades entre las diferentes zonas de España. Por ejemplo, si las condiciones laborales eran muy duras, prácticamente no quedaba tiempo para enviar a los niños a la escuela, dado que muchas veces su colaboración era necesaria para el sustento de la economía doméstica. O dicho de otro modo, los niños no podían acudir a las escuelas porque tenían que trabajar ayudando a los adultos, para poder aportar algo más de dinero en su casa.
Donde los trabajadores estaban mejor organizados, se acabaron consiguiendo mejores condiciones, pero no en todas partes era así. De ese modo, había zonas de España donde las tasas de analfabetismo eran tremendas, por ejemplo, Andalucía, Extremadura o Castilla, cuya economía era fundamentalmente agraria. Esto todavía en los años 30 del siglo XX.
Volviendo a Asturies, la escolarización se hacía utilizando exclusivamente el castellano como lengua vehicular, lo cual posiblemente contribuyó no poco al retroceso del asturiano, no estando presente ni siquiera como asignatura, que es la situación actual. De modo que en la mentalidad de la población asturiana se vio el castellano como una lengua de prestigio, la de la cultura, quedando relegado el asturiano para usos domésticos coloquiales.
Saludos.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Translated by Bob
Bob, teaching in Asturias during this era was not something private or something that took place in the home. There were public schools in the villages, what we would today call rural schools. These schools were created and paid for by town councils or by local citizens themselves. In fact, there is evidence that in some places, such as Cangas de Narcea and neighboring areas, the neighbors tried to hire teachers directly through employment contracts, teachers who often came from the neighboring province of Leon.
Also the Indianos played and important role, because those that were able to become wealthy in the Américas would later contribute to Asturias in terms of [paying for]social projects, including schools. For example, the Selgas Schools, in El Pitu in the county of Cuideiru, owe their existence to the philanthropic efforts of the Selgas family
Another type of initiative was undertaken by the first organizations that grew out of industrialization and labor movement. The different parties and labor unions had their own facilities and buildings, in which they not only organized conferences, but also meetings and other activities for the working class, concerning political or labor subjects. Also literacy classes were offered, as were musical recitals and readings of popular poetry, etc. That is to say, that the working organizations were concerned with elevating the cultural level of the workers. This is how the "Casas del Pueblo" worked, mostly ones linked to the Socialists.
The anarchists also undertook similar activities. Another example was those called "Ateneos Obreros." All these centers relied on their own libraries, for example.
Only later did the Spanish Government take measures to institute a system of public education, that little by little was extending to the entire country, first in the cities and later in the small towns. Even so, there were many inequalities among the different regions in Spain. For example, if the labor conditions were very hard, there was precious little time left to the children for school, since their efforts were often need to help support the family. Or in other words, the children could not go to the schools because they had to work helping the adults, to be able to contribute work rather than money to the household.
Where the workers better were organized, they ended up getting better conditions, but this was not true in all regions. Therefore, there were regions in Spain where the rates of illiteracy were very high, for example, Andalusia, Extremadura or Castile, whose economies were basically agrarian. This was true even in the 1930’s.
Returning to Asturias, the education was carried out using Castilian Spanish as the vehicle for teaching, which possibly contributed quite a bit to the diminishment of Asturian, which was not even presented as a subject for study, as is still the situation today. In the minds of the Asturian population Castllian came to be seen as the language as the language of culture, and Asturian was relegated to colloquial and domestic use.
Greetings.
También fue importante el papel de los "indianos", pues aquellos que conseguían hacer fortuna en las Américas solían después invertir en Asturies en obras sociales, tales como escuelas. Por ejemplo, las Escuelas Selgas, en El Pitu, concejo de Cuideiru, se deben a la iniciativa filantrópica de la familia Selgas.
Y otro tipo de iniciativa fue la emprendida por las primeras organizaciones aparecidas con la industrialización y el movimiento obrero. Los diferentes partidos y sindicatos obreros tenían unos locales propios, como locales específicamente pertenecientes a esas organizaciones, donde no sólo se daban conferencias, se hacían asambleas y otras actividades propias de la clase obrera, relativas a temas políticos o laborales. También se daban clases de alfabetización, se organizaban recitales de música o poesía popular, etc. Es decir, que las organizaciones obreras se preocupaban de elevar el nivel cultural de los trabajadores. Así era como funcionaban las primitivas "Casas del Pueblo", mayormente vinculadas a los socialistas.
También los anarquistas realizaban actividades parecidas. Otro ejemplo eran los llamados "Ateneos Obreros". Todos estos centros contaban con sus propias bibliotecas, por ejemplo.
Sólo más tarde fue cuando el Gobierno español tomó medidas de cara a instaurar el sistema de enseñanza pública, que poco a poco se fue extendiendo por todo el país, primero en las ciudades y luego en los pueblos pequeños. Aún así, había muchas desigualdades entre las diferentes zonas de España. Por ejemplo, si las condiciones laborales eran muy duras, prácticamente no quedaba tiempo para enviar a los niños a la escuela, dado que muchas veces su colaboración era necesaria para el sustento de la economía doméstica. O dicho de otro modo, los niños no podían acudir a las escuelas porque tenían que trabajar ayudando a los adultos, para poder aportar algo más de dinero en su casa.
Donde los trabajadores estaban mejor organizados, se acabaron consiguiendo mejores condiciones, pero no en todas partes era así. De ese modo, había zonas de España donde las tasas de analfabetismo eran tremendas, por ejemplo, Andalucía, Extremadura o Castilla, cuya economía era fundamentalmente agraria. Esto todavía en los años 30 del siglo XX.
Volviendo a Asturies, la escolarización se hacía utilizando exclusivamente el castellano como lengua vehicular, lo cual posiblemente contribuyó no poco al retroceso del asturiano, no estando presente ni siquiera como asignatura, que es la situación actual. De modo que en la mentalidad de la población asturiana se vio el castellano como una lengua de prestigio, la de la cultura, quedando relegado el asturiano para usos domésticos coloquiales.
Saludos.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Translated by Bob
Bob, teaching in Asturias during this era was not something private or something that took place in the home. There were public schools in the villages, what we would today call rural schools. These schools were created and paid for by town councils or by local citizens themselves. In fact, there is evidence that in some places, such as Cangas de Narcea and neighboring areas, the neighbors tried to hire teachers directly through employment contracts, teachers who often came from the neighboring province of Leon.
Also the Indianos played and important role, because those that were able to become wealthy in the Américas would later contribute to Asturias in terms of [paying for]social projects, including schools. For example, the Selgas Schools, in El Pitu in the county of Cuideiru, owe their existence to the philanthropic efforts of the Selgas family
Another type of initiative was undertaken by the first organizations that grew out of industrialization and labor movement. The different parties and labor unions had their own facilities and buildings, in which they not only organized conferences, but also meetings and other activities for the working class, concerning political or labor subjects. Also literacy classes were offered, as were musical recitals and readings of popular poetry, etc. That is to say, that the working organizations were concerned with elevating the cultural level of the workers. This is how the "Casas del Pueblo" worked, mostly ones linked to the Socialists.
The anarchists also undertook similar activities. Another example was those called "Ateneos Obreros." All these centers relied on their own libraries, for example.
Only later did the Spanish Government take measures to institute a system of public education, that little by little was extending to the entire country, first in the cities and later in the small towns. Even so, there were many inequalities among the different regions in Spain. For example, if the labor conditions were very hard, there was precious little time left to the children for school, since their efforts were often need to help support the family. Or in other words, the children could not go to the schools because they had to work helping the adults, to be able to contribute work rather than money to the household.
Where the workers better were organized, they ended up getting better conditions, but this was not true in all regions. Therefore, there were regions in Spain where the rates of illiteracy were very high, for example, Andalusia, Extremadura or Castile, whose economies were basically agrarian. This was true even in the 1930’s.
Returning to Asturias, the education was carried out using Castilian Spanish as the vehicle for teaching, which possibly contributed quite a bit to the diminishment of Asturian, which was not even presented as a subject for study, as is still the situation today. In the minds of the Asturian population Castllian came to be seen as the language as the language of culture, and Asturian was relegated to colloquial and domestic use.
Greetings.
-
Barbara Alonso Novellino
- Posts: 321
- Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2003 9:54 pm
- Location: Long Island, New York
- asturias_and_me:
My Dad Julius Garcia Alonso many years ago wrote a journal about his early years in Grasselli, West Virginia. I am in the process of putting it on my Computer and will send it to the Forum when I finish. I found these entries about school, etc. that I thought might be interesting.
I am not sure of the years...but he was born in 1905 and came to America as an infant in 1906...
"My first teacher was Mrs. Sunburn in the first grade. On my first day in school, she would throw pennies on the floor and as I tried to pick them up she stepped on them. Every morning we started class by singing. And every Monday we gathered in the principal's eighth grade class to sing also. My favorites were My Old Kentucky Home and My West Virginia Hills. Mrs. Sunburn imagined herself as a singer and she used to take off on a high note. Us kids used to watch her pucker her mouth for what reason we did not know unless she thought that by doiing so her singing would improve.
The teachers would wail the daylights out of the kids. I did not get many lickings being oneof the lucky ones. The teachers had a hard time when they got a grown boy whose family had just come from Spain. Many times the boy was 10 years old and was just starting the first grade. One of these boys was punished one day. He became so stubborn he laid down on the floor and would not get up after having received a sound licking. The principal was called in. He was a very exciteable man by the name of Holden, but even he failed to get the boy to get up. As time went on, they decided to call the boy's father in. The father came. He stuttered as he spoke. This and being very new to American ways, he became excited and turned to Holden asking him what had happened. Holden became even more excited and got scared. He thought the man was going to beat him up and so he fled the classroom and locked himself up in his office. The result was that the kid was left alone with his father. He got up and the two went home...The boy never got a licking from his Dad.
Another boy started school after coming from Spain. They started him in the first grade, but after a short while they advanced him to where he belonged. This boy was very good at numbers and the teachers used to like to watch him solve them. He did them in less time than the teachers.
As the town expanded, they built a bigger schoolhouse and when the new building was not enough we branched out to the Spanish Casino and the Hungarian Hall. I went to all of the buildings. The best male teacher we ever had was Mr. Teeters who was very much respected among the Spanish people. My family thought a lot of Mr. Teeters. My brother Hyneo, used to visit his family in Bridgeport. When my brother enlisted in the Army, Mr. Teeters wrote a very nice letter to the papers about him. My father treasured that letter very much.
During the winter months, when the snow was deep, I brought my lunch to school. When the boys gathered around the stove to eat they would hold their noses because of the garlic that my mother put into the sausages. I got so that I was so embarrassed I would eat apart from the rest of the boys. "Garlic Eaters" was a pet name for the Spanish kids. Although when I invited some of them to my house to eat they would eat gobs of the sausage without detecting the garlic.
None of the teachers lived in Grasselli. They either came from Bridgeport or Clarksburg as the town was predominantly Spanish who had little enough room for themselves let alone for teachers. When I went to school, there was one home town girl that took up teaching. Her name was Ann Stanton. Later when my nephews started going to school, all of the teachers came from town; the Hathaways, Wines, etc. My nephews and nieces completed the cycle. My older brothers were stoned for being Spanish (I was not thought to look very Spanish and so did not get stoned except when I brought in my sausages). My nephews, in later years, had no problem and were looked at as totally American.
Joe Menendez was the only boy up until my time who had gone to high school in Clarksburg. Now every kid goes to high school. It eas common to have the boys work at night and go to school in the mornings. Being that it was war time, there was very little checking carried out by the authorities. We had a truant officer out only one time that I remember. He went to get a farm boy who had moved to town and had gotten homesick for his friends on the farm."
This is just a few memories my Dad put down..I hope that you find this interesting...
I am not sure of the years...but he was born in 1905 and came to America as an infant in 1906...
"My first teacher was Mrs. Sunburn in the first grade. On my first day in school, she would throw pennies on the floor and as I tried to pick them up she stepped on them. Every morning we started class by singing. And every Monday we gathered in the principal's eighth grade class to sing also. My favorites were My Old Kentucky Home and My West Virginia Hills. Mrs. Sunburn imagined herself as a singer and she used to take off on a high note. Us kids used to watch her pucker her mouth for what reason we did not know unless she thought that by doiing so her singing would improve.
The teachers would wail the daylights out of the kids. I did not get many lickings being oneof the lucky ones. The teachers had a hard time when they got a grown boy whose family had just come from Spain. Many times the boy was 10 years old and was just starting the first grade. One of these boys was punished one day. He became so stubborn he laid down on the floor and would not get up after having received a sound licking. The principal was called in. He was a very exciteable man by the name of Holden, but even he failed to get the boy to get up. As time went on, they decided to call the boy's father in. The father came. He stuttered as he spoke. This and being very new to American ways, he became excited and turned to Holden asking him what had happened. Holden became even more excited and got scared. He thought the man was going to beat him up and so he fled the classroom and locked himself up in his office. The result was that the kid was left alone with his father. He got up and the two went home...The boy never got a licking from his Dad.
Another boy started school after coming from Spain. They started him in the first grade, but after a short while they advanced him to where he belonged. This boy was very good at numbers and the teachers used to like to watch him solve them. He did them in less time than the teachers.
As the town expanded, they built a bigger schoolhouse and when the new building was not enough we branched out to the Spanish Casino and the Hungarian Hall. I went to all of the buildings. The best male teacher we ever had was Mr. Teeters who was very much respected among the Spanish people. My family thought a lot of Mr. Teeters. My brother Hyneo, used to visit his family in Bridgeport. When my brother enlisted in the Army, Mr. Teeters wrote a very nice letter to the papers about him. My father treasured that letter very much.
During the winter months, when the snow was deep, I brought my lunch to school. When the boys gathered around the stove to eat they would hold their noses because of the garlic that my mother put into the sausages. I got so that I was so embarrassed I would eat apart from the rest of the boys. "Garlic Eaters" was a pet name for the Spanish kids. Although when I invited some of them to my house to eat they would eat gobs of the sausage without detecting the garlic.
None of the teachers lived in Grasselli. They either came from Bridgeport or Clarksburg as the town was predominantly Spanish who had little enough room for themselves let alone for teachers. When I went to school, there was one home town girl that took up teaching. Her name was Ann Stanton. Later when my nephews started going to school, all of the teachers came from town; the Hathaways, Wines, etc. My nephews and nieces completed the cycle. My older brothers were stoned for being Spanish (I was not thought to look very Spanish and so did not get stoned except when I brought in my sausages). My nephews, in later years, had no problem and were looked at as totally American.
Joe Menendez was the only boy up until my time who had gone to high school in Clarksburg. Now every kid goes to high school. It eas common to have the boys work at night and go to school in the mornings. Being that it was war time, there was very little checking carried out by the authorities. We had a truant officer out only one time that I remember. He went to get a farm boy who had moved to town and had gotten homesick for his friends on the farm."
This is just a few memories my Dad put down..I hope that you find this interesting...
-
Terechu
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- asturias_and_me:
Barbara, I loved that text. I wish my parents and grandparents had left a written account of their childhood at least - if not of their entire life.
Reading about your father's school years I was reminded of that wonderful French classic "Le Grand Meaulnes" by Alain-Fournier. (I believe in English it was also published as "The Lost Domain"). It's about boyhood and growing up and of days gone by and a world that no longer exists and none of us will never know.
I would love to read more whenever you have it ready.
Hugs
Reading about your father's school years I was reminded of that wonderful French classic "Le Grand Meaulnes" by Alain-Fournier. (I believe in English it was also published as "The Lost Domain"). It's about boyhood and growing up and of days gone by and a world that no longer exists and none of us will never know.
I would love to read more whenever you have it ready.
Hugs
-
Barbara Alonso Novellino
- Posts: 321
- Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2003 9:54 pm
- Location: Long Island, New York
- asturias_and_me:
Thank you Terechu for your kind words.
As I said, I am in the process of putting it on my Computer. Unfortunately I had it almost finished when my family bought me a new Computer for my Birthday. I had forgotten to put it on a disc and it was lost...know better now.
So, I am working on it...hope to have it finished soon. Its about 38 pages long...I wish he had done more but...
Hugs to you as well...
As I said, I am in the process of putting it on my Computer. Unfortunately I had it almost finished when my family bought me a new Computer for my Birthday. I had forgotten to put it on a disc and it was lost...know better now.
So, I am working on it...hope to have it finished soon. Its about 38 pages long...I wish he had done more but...
Hugs to you as well...
-
Carlos
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- Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2003 5:14 pm
- Location: Xixón
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- Contact:
Bob, ante todo gracias por la traducción, correcta en términos generales.
Releyendo con un poco más de calma lo que escribí más arriba, hay algunas cosas que quizás expresé de forma no suficientemente clara. Lo primero, es la cronología. Evidentemente, no era la misma situación en 1700 que en 1930.
Y lo segundo, hablando de iniciativas privadas, se me olvidó hablar del papel de la Iglesia católica y de diferenciar las clases sociales.
La Iglesia fue la primera institución privada que desarrolló un sistema de enseñanza, y hablo concretamente de la Universidad de Oviedo, fundada en el año 1608 por el sacerdote Fernando Valdés Salas, consejero personal de los emperadores Carlos I y su hijo Felipe II. En su testamento dejó fondos económicos para el funcionamiento de nuestra Universidad, quizás pensada para ampliar un centro anterior más modesto, el Colegio de San Gregorio, donde se impartían Gramática y Humanidades, también fundado por él. Al mismo tiempo, también fundó una escuela para niñas huérfanas pobres. Esta escuela se llamó Colegio de Huérfanas Recoletas, y estaba situado donde hoy se encuentra el Rectorado (las oficinas del Rector), en el edificio histórico. Todavía hoy se puede ver un azulejo en la fachada con la inscripción "Colejio de Recoletas". Por cierto, "recoletas" no quiere decir "bonitas" ni sinónimos parecidos, es un cultismo tomado del latín, con el sentido de "recogidas" (de "recolecta").
De todas formas, este tipo de enseñanza impartida por la Iglesia no llegaba a toda la población. Se centraba principalmente en las ciudades y para segmentos de población muy definidos: pobres severos, huérfanos, clases medias-altas, los hijos de linaje que no heredaban patrimonio, a los que se procuraba encauzar hacia el sacerdocio (como por ejemplo los seminaristas), etc.
Más tarde este tipo de enseñanza se extendió a otros lugares. A finales del siglo XVIII-comienzos del XIX comenzaron a impartir enseñanza órdenes religiosas como los Jesuitas, que más tarde, con la llegada de la industrialización, se especializaron en la Formación Profesional (oficios).
Cuando se declaró la 2ª República, la mayoría de los principales colegios en todo el país (descartando las pequeñas escuelas rurales) estaba en manos de la Iglesia Católica.
Todavía hoy en Gijón existen en activo la Fundación San Eutiquio y el Revillagigedo, donde se enseñan oficios, a cargo de los Jesuitas.
Por otro lado, durante la segunda mitad del siglo XIX y los comienzos del XX, los verdaderamente ricos podían tener institutrices o tutores privados, al modo como era común en otros lugares de Europa en la misma época, y más tarde enviaban a sus hijos a otros lugares del país o del extranjero. Pero estamos hablando de ricos burgueses y gente así, no del común de la población, claro.
Y más específicamente dentro del campo de la Formación Profesional, el aprendizaje clásico era un largo proceso, mediante el que se depuraban en un dificultoso y prolongado camino unos excelentes profesionales, aunque en muchos casos a base de bastante explotación. Eso sí, después tenían un trabajo casi garantizado para toda la vida. Esto se hacía en los propios talleres o en las fábricas. Por ejemplo, todavía se conserva el edificio de la Escuela de Aprendices en la Fábrica de Armas, en Trubia, muy cerca de Oviedo.
Ahora sí, creo que no me dejo nada importante
Releyendo con un poco más de calma lo que escribí más arriba, hay algunas cosas que quizás expresé de forma no suficientemente clara. Lo primero, es la cronología. Evidentemente, no era la misma situación en 1700 que en 1930.
Y lo segundo, hablando de iniciativas privadas, se me olvidó hablar del papel de la Iglesia católica y de diferenciar las clases sociales.
La Iglesia fue la primera institución privada que desarrolló un sistema de enseñanza, y hablo concretamente de la Universidad de Oviedo, fundada en el año 1608 por el sacerdote Fernando Valdés Salas, consejero personal de los emperadores Carlos I y su hijo Felipe II. En su testamento dejó fondos económicos para el funcionamiento de nuestra Universidad, quizás pensada para ampliar un centro anterior más modesto, el Colegio de San Gregorio, donde se impartían Gramática y Humanidades, también fundado por él. Al mismo tiempo, también fundó una escuela para niñas huérfanas pobres. Esta escuela se llamó Colegio de Huérfanas Recoletas, y estaba situado donde hoy se encuentra el Rectorado (las oficinas del Rector), en el edificio histórico. Todavía hoy se puede ver un azulejo en la fachada con la inscripción "Colejio de Recoletas". Por cierto, "recoletas" no quiere decir "bonitas" ni sinónimos parecidos, es un cultismo tomado del latín, con el sentido de "recogidas" (de "recolecta").
De todas formas, este tipo de enseñanza impartida por la Iglesia no llegaba a toda la población. Se centraba principalmente en las ciudades y para segmentos de población muy definidos: pobres severos, huérfanos, clases medias-altas, los hijos de linaje que no heredaban patrimonio, a los que se procuraba encauzar hacia el sacerdocio (como por ejemplo los seminaristas), etc.
Más tarde este tipo de enseñanza se extendió a otros lugares. A finales del siglo XVIII-comienzos del XIX comenzaron a impartir enseñanza órdenes religiosas como los Jesuitas, que más tarde, con la llegada de la industrialización, se especializaron en la Formación Profesional (oficios).
Cuando se declaró la 2ª República, la mayoría de los principales colegios en todo el país (descartando las pequeñas escuelas rurales) estaba en manos de la Iglesia Católica.
Todavía hoy en Gijón existen en activo la Fundación San Eutiquio y el Revillagigedo, donde se enseñan oficios, a cargo de los Jesuitas.
Por otro lado, durante la segunda mitad del siglo XIX y los comienzos del XX, los verdaderamente ricos podían tener institutrices o tutores privados, al modo como era común en otros lugares de Europa en la misma época, y más tarde enviaban a sus hijos a otros lugares del país o del extranjero. Pero estamos hablando de ricos burgueses y gente así, no del común de la población, claro.
Y más específicamente dentro del campo de la Formación Profesional, el aprendizaje clásico era un largo proceso, mediante el que se depuraban en un dificultoso y prolongado camino unos excelentes profesionales, aunque en muchos casos a base de bastante explotación. Eso sí, después tenían un trabajo casi garantizado para toda la vida. Esto se hacía en los propios talleres o en las fábricas. Por ejemplo, todavía se conserva el edificio de la Escuela de Aprendices en la Fábrica de Armas, en Trubia, muy cerca de Oviedo.
Ahora sí, creo que no me dejo nada importante
-
Ron Gonzalez
- Posts: 377
- Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 8:08 pm
- asturias_and_me:
Education And Literacy
I think that my father's generation,if they did go to school it was not for long. In my father's case he worked to help support the family. At that time a job was more inportant than education. I can't speak for all the men in Ziesing, but I would say there was a language barrier in school, but not on the on the job. At one time all the posting at the plant at Ziesing were in Spanish, I have one of the posting. My uncle Joe Vasquez was carrying water to the men at Ziesing plant when he was 11 years old. How much time did he have for school? It was not until the third generation that a high school or college education was possible.
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Carlos
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Ron, el caso de tu padre era muy corriente aquí en Asturies y en otros lugares. Cuando hablamos de la educación de las clases bajas (trabajadores y campesinos), estamos hablando de una educación básica. Es lo que se solía llamar "las cuatro reglas" (sumar, restar, multiplicar y dividir).
Si bien no era eso solamente lo único que se enseñaba (también se impartían clases de Historia, Geografía, etc), lo cierto es que las operaciones matemáticas básicas más el aprendizaje de la lectura y escritura era lo que los padres consideraban más importante para los niños, pues con eso pensaban que ya tenían el bagaje imprescindible para defenderse en la vida.
Esto solía quedar cumplido hacia aproximadamente los 8-10 años de edad. Menos eran los que completaban los estudios básicos hasta los 14 años más o menos, y aún más reducido era el grupo de los que continuaban estudiando, normalmente las clases medias urbanas y los hijos de los ricos.
Eso comenzó a cambiar precisamente a partir de mediados del siglo XX, en la época llamada "desarrollismo", cuando la economía española empezó a despegar y recuperarse, después del tremendo atraso en que estaba sumido un país destrozado tras la Guerra Civil. Hay por lo tanto una clara correlación entre desarrollo económico y nivel educativo y cultural.
Todavía hasta los años 60, en plena época de Franco, había mozos que aprendían a leer y escribir durante el servicio militar. No hablo especialmente de la población asturiana, claro, sino particularmente de las zonas más deprimidas del país. Insisto, como ya dije en algún otro mensaje, que la población asturiana en general tenía ya desde los años 30 uno de los índices de alfabetización más alto de España.
Saludos.
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trans. Art
Ron, the case of your father was very normal/common here in Asturies and in other places. When we speak about the education of the lower classes (workers and peasants), we are speaking about a basic education. It is what we used to call the "four rules" (to add, subtract, multiply, and divide).
Though it was not just these things that were taught (also there classes in History, Geography, etc), the certain thing is that the basic mathematical operations plus the learning reading and writing was what parents considered to be most important for their children, since with it they were thinking that already they would have the necessary tools to defend themselves [get along] in life.
This [education] was often finished by about approximately 8-10 years of age. Fewer children went on to complete the basic studies up to 14 years years of age, more or less, and even fewer went on to continue studying, normally the urban middle classes and the children of the rich.
That began to change precisely from middle of the 20th century, in the so called epoch of "desarrollismo" [policy of economic development], when the Spanish economy started taking off and recovering, after the terrible plunge the country took into a backward state after the Civil war. There is therefore a clear correlation between economic development and educational and cultural level.
Still up until the 60s, in middle of the Franco era, there were young boys who learned to read and write while doing their military service. I'm not speaking about the Asturian population in particular, clearly, but about the most depressed zones of the country [as a whole]. I would stress, as I already have said in some another message, that the Asturian population in general had already from the 1930s one of the highest levels of literacy in Spain.
Regards.
Si bien no era eso solamente lo único que se enseñaba (también se impartían clases de Historia, Geografía, etc), lo cierto es que las operaciones matemáticas básicas más el aprendizaje de la lectura y escritura era lo que los padres consideraban más importante para los niños, pues con eso pensaban que ya tenían el bagaje imprescindible para defenderse en la vida.
Esto solía quedar cumplido hacia aproximadamente los 8-10 años de edad. Menos eran los que completaban los estudios básicos hasta los 14 años más o menos, y aún más reducido era el grupo de los que continuaban estudiando, normalmente las clases medias urbanas y los hijos de los ricos.
Eso comenzó a cambiar precisamente a partir de mediados del siglo XX, en la época llamada "desarrollismo", cuando la economía española empezó a despegar y recuperarse, después del tremendo atraso en que estaba sumido un país destrozado tras la Guerra Civil. Hay por lo tanto una clara correlación entre desarrollo económico y nivel educativo y cultural.
Todavía hasta los años 60, en plena época de Franco, había mozos que aprendían a leer y escribir durante el servicio militar. No hablo especialmente de la población asturiana, claro, sino particularmente de las zonas más deprimidas del país. Insisto, como ya dije en algún otro mensaje, que la población asturiana en general tenía ya desde los años 30 uno de los índices de alfabetización más alto de España.
Saludos.
-------------
trans. Art
Ron, the case of your father was very normal/common here in Asturies and in other places. When we speak about the education of the lower classes (workers and peasants), we are speaking about a basic education. It is what we used to call the "four rules" (to add, subtract, multiply, and divide).
Though it was not just these things that were taught (also there classes in History, Geography, etc), the certain thing is that the basic mathematical operations plus the learning reading and writing was what parents considered to be most important for their children, since with it they were thinking that already they would have the necessary tools to defend themselves [get along] in life.
This [education] was often finished by about approximately 8-10 years of age. Fewer children went on to complete the basic studies up to 14 years years of age, more or less, and even fewer went on to continue studying, normally the urban middle classes and the children of the rich.
That began to change precisely from middle of the 20th century, in the so called epoch of "desarrollismo" [policy of economic development], when the Spanish economy started taking off and recovering, after the terrible plunge the country took into a backward state after the Civil war. There is therefore a clear correlation between economic development and educational and cultural level.
Still up until the 60s, in middle of the Franco era, there were young boys who learned to read and write while doing their military service. I'm not speaking about the Asturian population in particular, clearly, but about the most depressed zones of the country [as a whole]. I would stress, as I already have said in some another message, that the Asturian population in general had already from the 1930s one of the highest levels of literacy in Spain.
Regards.
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Ron Gonzalez
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- Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 8:08 pm
- asturias_and_me:
Education And Literacy
Can someone translate Carlos posting thank's
Ron Gonzalez
Ron Gonzalez
