2004 election in the US

Barbara Alonso Novellino · Thu Sep 30, 2004 1:58 am

Manny, I agree with you on the Patriot Act...I absolutely have no problem with it.

Burning the Flag...I feel very angry when I see someone burning our flag. It seems to be a daily thing in some foreign countries...why would we want to do it here. This is a symbol of our Country and many men and woman have died protecting this Country and our Flag.

Having God in our Pledge of Allegiance. Why should that be taken away...if you don't like it then don't say it when it comes to that part. Why should anyone have the right to take it away from everyone, what about the rights of the people who believe in GOD...

We have come to an unbelievable place...I never thought we would come to this point in our Country. I was a small child during WWII but I remember how this Country stood together...After 9/11 we came together again...what happened...did we forget what happened to all those innocent people and to those magnificent buildings. Do you people realize that there are terrorists out there who want to take away our way of life. This is not a maybe...its real and we had better realize this and realize it before its too late.

This going back and forth...should we be in Iraq...was there or wasn't there WMD, did Hu-shame have a connection to Al Queda...are there going to be Elections in January...are there, should there...we are fueling the terrorists because they see we have no unity.

Don't come back and answer my posting with some nonsense about President Bush...please don't bother!

Remember Vietnam and the problems we had with protestors, etc. I remember the riots, etc. Well, it helped prolong the war because we weren't unified. Remember the soldiers coming back from Vietnam being spat upon and called baby killers. Don't you see the same thing happening now in Iraq. We need a unified country...its so very important.

Xose · Post by **Xose** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:20 am

I, too, am angered when I see someone burn our flag. But the flag, in itself IS just a piece of cloth. What it stands for, freedom for all people, security for our citizens, the liberties we so cherish, cannot be destroyed by this silly act of defiance. Those values can be destroyed however, by well-intentioned yet misguided people who would ban this form or freedom of expression (and any others they find offensive) as a reaction to their bruised emotions. What's next? Banning people from saying the President is incompetent? Banning people from writing letters to the editor saying that the Iraq war is wrong? Do you see what I'm getting at? It's a slippery slope that we should be very wary of sliding down.

Those soldiers didn't die for the flag. They died for the ideals that the flag represents--including the freedom of political speech, something far more important than the physical cloth that makes up the symbol.

Having god in the pledge is a form of coersion that should not be condoned by the government in this country. We have the freedom to worship however we choose, so long as it doesn't interfere with others. Hence, "go thee into thy closet to pray," as Jesus himself said.

I don't believe that it's logical to blame the chaos in Iraq on dissent here at home. Bush is the sole cause of the turmoil in Iraq, and he is the sole cause of all those brave American lives being wasted on a daily basis.

It's not unpatriotic to point out when you think a President is doing a terrible job and endangering his country and the rest of the world. In fact, it would be unpatriotic not to do so.

Of course, this is only my opinion, which I know you do not share, but I don't believe "going along to get along" serves anyone in the long run.

Ken Menendez · Post by **Ken Menendez** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 5:19 pm

On Sept. 27, 2004, Bob had suggested that if anyone was interested in any files the FBI may have on them, then, as per the Freedom of Information--Privacy Acts (FOIPA), you can request those files from the FBI. In a posting to Bob on 9/27 I said that I would see now this works. I went to the web site that Bob listed and copied the form and faxed the form to the FBI for my file.

Today, Oct. 4, 2004 (7 days later) I received the information from the FBI's David Hardy, Section Chief, Record/Information Dissemination Section, Records Management Division, a letter basically telling me what I already knew. Nothing on me. However, he went on to say that if I had a "rap sheet", which is different than the FBI "file", but will contain arrest, federal employment, naturalization, or military service. To obtain a copy of your "rap sheet" you can submit a written requst to FBI, CJIS Division, Attn: SCU, Mod. D-2, 1000 Custer Hollow Road, Clarksburg, West Virginia 26306. Request will require proof of identity consisting of name, date and place of birth and a set of rolled-ink fingerprint impressions placed upon fingerprint cards or forms commonly utilized for applicant or law enforcement agencies, plus $18...... Seems like a lot of effort for this information; however, this Clarksburg FBI location is the fingerprint operations for the FBI. I won't bother with this as they should have a record on me for military service (1966-1968) listing my security clearance at the time (since expired).

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 5:58 pm

Thanks for the information, Ken. I do find it a little disturbing, because it means that if you want to exercise your right to see you record under the freedom of information act, you have to give the FBI added data about yourself--your fingerprints--which they may or may not already have.

Bob Martinez

Ken Menendez · Post by **Ken Menendez** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 6:27 pm

The form the FBI uses only asks for Full Name, Current Address, Date of Birth, Place of Birth, Daytime Telephone Number, and if you wish you can add prior addressess, employments, aliases, etc., which, quoting the FBI, "you believe may assist the FBI in locating the information you seek". No mention of Social Security Number or Driver's License info for possible identification. My opinion is the fingerprints are probably the only "true" way of properly identifying someone, without appearing in person, so the FBI is not accused of letting out information to the wrong source. I am not sure of how else the FBI could handle the releasing of information without proper identification. Can you imagine if all you needed to obtain a "rap sheet" file or any file without some form of positive I.D. on yourself or obtaining someone else's, how active the conspiracy theorist would be? We have far too many Urban Legends the way it is.

As I understand it, there are two types of files, the FBI files which you can obtain with the above identifying information and without fingerprints, or the so-called "rap sheet" which require the fingerprints. The "rap sheet" is the one that will contain any criminal activity, as I understand it. The FBI files come from Washington, DC and the "rap sheet" files are maintained in Clarksburg.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 6:49 pm

I'm confused by two things:

1) If they don't already have your fingerprints on file, how does collecting your fingerprints serve to identify you?

2) Why could someone who fingerprints are already on file not give fingerprints (in person) as proof of ID, but have the new set returned to them without being entered into the database?

I speak as someone whose uncle was an FBI agent and whose cousin is currently an FBI agent.

Bob Martinez

Ken Menendez · Post by **Ken Menendez** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 8:15 pm

Bob, you are so right. As you just presented the fingerprinting issue one could be confused. The rest of the FBI statement which I didn't provide was: ".....and a set of rolled-ink fingerprint impressions placed upon fingerprint cards or forms commonly utilized for applicant or law enforement purposes by law enforcement agencies...." Seems the key here is to go to a police station for fingerprinting and I guess there you would be required to provide a proper ID accepted by the local law enforcement agency. I wouldn't know where else to go for fingerprinting.

It would be worth it for one who suspects our government is keeping a file on him. Probably 90% plus Americans care less (assumption).

With the proper forms, a set of fingerprints and $18 you too can have a peak at your personal file being held by the FBI, if you have a "rap sheet". If not, the FBI will provide their regular file for the proper forms and no fingerprint or $18. Just fax it in, as I did.

A file on us that is kept by publicily and privately traded companies is our Credit Report and Credit Score. That probably has more impact on our daily lives than a FBI report. How many people have requested their Credit Report? It has a great impact on your auto insurance, ability to obtain credit and what percent of interest to be paid and so on. You can do that on-line with a credit card and social security number for report and score for around the same price of $18.

Germán · Post by **Germán** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 10:54 pm

This is a good place to look for information regarding consumer reporting regulations and related issues:
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/menu-credit

Under certain circumstances you can order your consumer reports for free (one per year). This is the case when some negative action has taken upon you based on a report (denial of credit or loans, insurance, etc) and you make your request within 60 days of receiving the notice. Other special cases refer to unemployment status and fraud cases. There is also a limit on the maximum charge allowed in any case, but I do not remember exactly how much it is (not too high though).

Be aware of marketing practices that advertise free credit reports that are actually tied to other non-free services. In some cases you can explicitly cancel the latter ones.

Regards,
Germán

Xose · Post by **Xose** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 9:45 am

Ken, you have touched on a very important subject here. In these days of increased identity theft, it is VITAL that EVERYONE check your credit report at least once a year (I do it once every six months). There are three credit reporting agencies, and you should get a copy of all three records. The agencies are:

Equifax: www.equifax.com
Experian: www.experian.com
TransUnion: www.transunion.com/

All three will check all three reports for you for $39.

If anyone is using your SSN or credit, it will show up here. You may not even know this is happening, so it's important to check.

Checking too often will lower your score, though, so don't do it more than twice a year unless you have fraud on your accounts.

On the FBI FOIA request: I'm surprised that you got a report so quickly. In a famous case just this week, a college professor was just granted John Lennon's secret case file after 10 years of trying....

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:10 am

I'm curious as to the situation in Asturias and the rest of Spain. Can a citizen obtain his or her files from the appropriate government agencies, including the Spanish equivalent of the FBI (Federal Bureau of Investigation - the closest we come to having a national police).

Bob Martinez

Ken Menendez · Post by **Ken Menendez** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 11:12 am

Xose, thanks for posting the three major credit reporting firms.

As for the college professor attempting to obtain John Lennon's files and how did I get my info so fast, may have to do with me requesting my own files rather than someone else's???? Not sure how the freedom of information act applies to obtaining someone else's file without that person's prior approval. Otherwise, we all could obtain anyone's files rather they are a public figure or not.

Post by **Art** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 3:25 pm

I can see how Ken's behaviors and beliefs would not raise questions in the minds of the FBI. They probably don't have anything on him.

Still, if I were a known radical and received a letter stating that the FBI has no records on me, I wouldn't assume that they don't have any records. I'd assume that they just weren't sharing them with me.

---------------

Entiendo que el comportamiento y las creencias de Ken no van a llamar la atención del FBI a él. Es probable que no tienen nada sobre él.

Pues, si sea un radical conocido y reciba un carta de FBI que dice que no tienen datos sobre mí, no suponga que no tienen ningún dato. Suponería que no van a me dar lo que tienen.

Ken Menendez · Post by **Ken Menendez** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:29 pm

If I were a known radical and thought the FBI was withholding a file on me and would not share the information under the Freedom of Information Act, then I would hire a left leaning lawyer (try the ACLU) and file suit in a federal court. The ACLU would probably handle the case for free just to test the govenment. However, I am relatively sure that if you filed the proper paper work with the government you will obtain the information on yourself.

I have faith in our government. And you are right, Art, my "BEHAVIOR" as a citizen who is extremely proud of my country, and one who hasn't been in trouble with the law, except for a couple of speeding tickets since I was 16, I do not fear our government. I do not understand your use of the word "BELIEFS". You make the statement about my behavior and beliefs, sound like we live in a totalitarian state and should fear some evil government entity.

Gosh, Art, what the hell did you do to be so paranoid.

Enough of the conspiracy theories. Please.

Barbara Alonso Novellino · Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:51 pm

Art,

GIVE IT A REST!

I like Ken have faith in our Government...

I can't imagine where you are coming from in so many aspects of these Postings.

Barbara Alonso Novellino

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:59 pm

I ask everyone please to refocus on discussing politics rather than one another. Thanks.

Bob Martinez

Asturian-American Migration Forum

2004 election in the US

GET YOUR CREDIT REPORT!!!!!