Asturian-American Migration Forum

Thanks, Charolette. Were there any limitations on when you could apply for citizenship?

It's interesting that each location can have different rules.

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Gracias, Charolette. ¿Había cualquier limitación sobre cuándo se puede solicitar nacionalidad?

Me interesa que cada ubicación puede establecer distintas normas.

It is my understanding that the birth certificate is what gives you citizenship, but if you don't get a passport within three years you will lose your citizenship. The lady that I talked to said that if it were her she would get the passport before the law ends (Dec 2011).

That's basically what I understand, too. Also, if you don't maintain a valid passport, you can lose your citizenship.

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Eso es lo que tengo entendido también. Además, si no se mantiene un pasaporte válido, se puede perder la ciudadanía.

Thats what it sounds like. At least once you get the passport it is good for 10 years!

I got a reply from the DC Consulate by email today!

[trans. Art] You can come anytime within that time, we do not close for holidays. (I had written: Can one visit any day (Monday to Thursday) from 9:00 am to 1:00 pm?)

Unfortunately we have express orders from the Ministry not to send the passports by mail for security reasons, but can you authorize someone to pick up your passport in your name and take it to you.

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¡Recibí por correo una respuesta del Consulado de DC hoy!

Puede venir cuando quiera dentro de ese horario, no cerramos por vacaciones. (Escribí: ¿Se puede visitar cualquier día (de lunes a jueves) de 9:00 am hasta la 1:00 pm?)

Lamentablemente tenemos ordenes expresas del Ministerio de no mandar los pasaportes por correo por motivos de seguridad, pero puede Vd. autorizara alguien a recoger el pasaporte en su nombre y que se lo envie.

I'm sure glad they didn't tell me that! I don't know anyone in San Francisco and its about 600 miles each way!

I applied for a passport Wednesday. The process was simple enough, although the amount they charged me ($36) was different from what the letter I received had said. They weren't able to explain the difference in the fee. Anyone going to their consulate to apply for a passport should take more cash than they expect to need, just in case.

Also, they told me again that there is a directive stating that they are no longer allowed to mail passports to us. We can, however, have a friend or family member pick it up, as long as we give them a letter stating that they have permission to pick up the passport. Odd.

Supposedly, I'll have it in about three weeks... after another trip to the consulate.

Thank for your forum(s) that allow a clearing house and much needed information. May I post my peculiar situation in the hope that it might make some sense for other applicants.

Although we are not of Asturian heritage (Catalunia actually) my family story might be of general interest. Mi abuelo nacio en la puebla pequenia Falset, Tarragona. My GF was born in the small village of Falset, Tarragona in the early 1870's. With the assistance of a friend, we were able to find his registered baptismal certificate in the city of Tarragona but nothing more. My GP was conscripted into the Spanish Army in 1896. He was very poor and was substituted in place for the son of a wealthier man who was able to pay the required amount to keep his own son from war. My GP was sent to Las Filipinas where he was trained as a medical corpsman. Fortunately, la guerra Hispano America was very brief in the Philippines with minimal loss of life on both sides. He remained in the Philippines, marrying a Lebanese lady (!) and having 4 children. One of which was my father. It is important to understand at this point that the consulados de Espana make a fine but firm distinction between a soldier who was sent overseas and remained and an individual who was an emigrant from Spain. My father was born a Spaniard and was registered as a Spaniard, though he grew up in the Philippines. When I was born, I was a Spanish citizen. Yet my mother was an American citizen. Technically, I was both at the time of my birth. You can imagine that in 1945 in the Philippines, the record keeping was very difficult to keep straight. Our family emigrated to the EEUU in 1945, just days after my birth in the liberated Santo Tomas Civilian Prison Camp administered by the Japanese forces. My mother was not made a POW in the Santo Tomas Camp because my father was able to register her as the wife of a Spaniard. The camp had just been liberated by American forces. Spain was (ahem!) 'neutral' at the time under the Generalissimo. And here is the crucial part: in 1950 my father was told to choose between the USA or the Generalissimo. Having just spent 4 years in the underground guerrilla forces, hiding from the Spanish allies (the Japanese), and witnessing his best friends (Americans) being tortured and killed by the Kempeitai (Japanese Special Security Forces), he chose American citizenship. I was 5 years old at the time. Important: because I was a minor, I was under the authority of my father and his actions. According to the consulado de Manila (where I had to send all my documents) I LOST my cuidadano (citizenship) at the same time my father lost his by choosing American nationality.

Fast forward to 2011, after two years of gathering documents and preparing papers, my two sons re-gained their ciudadano under Annexo Uno, La Ley Memoria Historica. Me....denied citizenship!!! In spite of the fact that the consulado de Manila backdated a literal birth certificate, registered and proper, in Manila for my birth in 1945....AS A SPANIARD. I was a Spaniard at birth but lost same in 1950. I have been encouraged to challenge the requirement for residencia en Espana for 1 year to re-gain my ciudadano. To do so, I must prepare and present a nightmare of a document called a Dispensa de Residencia for the Ministerio Justicia en Madrid. My head is already swimming with the required information they request. And all on the hope, whim, and possibility that some officer in the Ministerio is having a good day and gives me the OK. Otherwise, it's back to Espana for 1 year (not bad actually...I'm already salivating about the food!) to fulfill the requirements and then I shall have dual citizenship. My wife also.

I mention this whole story because I see in these forums many threads that allude to the term 'emigrant' and how important distinctions are made in the minds of the consulates. BTW, from my understanding, one has until only December 27, 2011 to apply for the La Ley Memoria Historica. After that time, the consulados say they cannot offer that avenue unless further advised by the government. This was BEFORE the PP were elected. It has nothing to do with the coming bloodbath of loss of jobs to the civil and governmental sectors in Spain come 2012.

Buena suerte,

Philip Garcia
Vancouver, WA
EEUU

I have stumbled across this forum, and it has been immensely helpful thus far.

I am at the passport application phase of my ley 52 application. At the time that you applied for the passport, what other materials were required of you, in addition to the money order? Did you have to bring your current US passport for identification, and if so, would they attempt to take it away?

thanks in advance

The final determination for me was that I was judged to not be eligible for DIRECT citizenship (ciudadano) only an indirect method. 1 year of residency. Strangely, my adult sons have been successful and all they need to do is collect the passport. In answer, no...they do not attempt to confiscate your US passport nor even ask for it as identification. From what I understand, this window of opportunity for La Ley allowed for dual citizenship to be maintained...no questions asked. Now, we are just awaiting a mutual date so that our family can proceed to San Francisco from the far flung cities my boys now live. After passports in hand, we shall celebrate in the City after a successful conclusion to along and bewildering trip to ciudadano for my sons.

Buena suerte,

Phil Garcia
Vancouver, WA

thank you for the update manchego.

I just wanted confirmation, as they specifically requested that I bring in my US passport at the time I apply for the Spanish one. As Art, (and others), have mentioned, each Consulate does things slightly different, and so my fees are a few dollars more as well.

If I remember correctly, they did want to see the passport and they may have asked me to bring 2 copies its main page. But Manchego is right that they will not take it.

But the issue of dual citizenship is complicated. You can lose it. The US doesn't recognize dual citizenship with Spain, but it allows it in the sense of not doing anything about it. And, to be blunt, it's definitely not a way to avoid taxes.

The Spanish government also does not recognize dual citizenship with the US, and (if I remember correctly) you have to maintain your status (in particular, by applying for a passport and then renewing your passport on time) or you could lose your Spanish citizenship.

I don't believe the Spanish tax laws at present expose US citizens to additional taxes, if they do not earn money or live in Spain. (I'd have to research that more to be sure.)

But if a new Spanish citizen were young enough, they might be required to serve in the military even if they were older than the usual age at which military service is completed. I haven't researched this either, but 30 years ago, I knew a Spanish citizen who had immigrated to Australia as a child. When he returned, he was told that he had to do his military service even though he was over 30. I think there were legal maneuvers he used to try to get exempted, but it was a mess. Again, the laws may have changed since that time and ours is a different situation, but a younger person would be wise to investigate them.

I'm curious. I thought the deadline had passed last December for applying for citizenship under the expedited procedures (LA LEY 36/2002, DE 8 DE OCTUBRE (B.O.E. 9-10-02) SOBRE NACIONALIDAD ESPAÑOLA, QUE ENTRARAN EN VIGOR EL 9 DE ENERO DE 2003). Is that not the law you're applying under, Roe?

Hi Art, thank you for the clarification.

Yes the law has expired, (I actually applied under ley 52/2007, grandchild of exile) but due to the enormous wait last year at the consulate, my appointment for submitting the application wasn't until October 2011. Having called for a status update after 8 months (June 2012), I have been informed of the birth certificate and was told by the consulate I can make an appointment for the passport.

I am bringing nearly all the documents I used for the civil registry application with me as insurance, as I had multiple copies of passport pages etc. The consulate has been hit or miss in regards to accurate information, so I am paranoid!

Ah, I see. That's good!

The person who took my application in DC helped me fill it in. There were a number of blanks that I didn't understand. You'll need to choose a place as your electoral "home." If you want to, you will be given the opportunity to vote in a Spanish concejo/county.

Getting the passport is a much faster process than getting the birth certificate.

It will be a year this summer for me, no word yet.