9-11 & 3-11 attacks, Iraq--Ataques 11'09 & 11'03, Ir

[Mouguias]

I guess you might criticize Americans for their being too self-centered, but I think this is the least suitable forum to do it. Here in Asturian-Americans the aim is precisely to learn about another culture and another country. And it was THEIR idea to do it, not ours.
........................
Supongo que se puede criticar a los americanos por estar demasiado ensimismados, pero me parece que este es el foro menos adecuado para hacerlo. Aqui en Asturian-Americans el objetivo es precisamente abrirse a otra cultura y otro pais. Y la idea partio de ELLOS, no de nosotros

[Art]

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Mouguais.

Actually, I see "Americans" as a complicated group (probably like any citizenry).

There are many Americans who watch Fox News and believe the propaganda Fox presents as news. And many of those people don't think about other countries or other people. I'm sure that naivete of the masses is common everywhere, but in a country that has so much power, this ignorance is dangerous.

But not all Americans are zoned out on the drug of consumerism. There are people who think critically. Many of these are on the left--but to be fair--some are on the right, too. One of the wonderful things about the current election is that the left has become re-energized. Bush gave us good reason to wake up and take action. It's encouraging to know that there is a large percentage of Americans who are upset with Bush's policies and methods.

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Gracias para el voto de confianza, Mouguais.

En realidad, pienso que "los Americanos" son un grupo complicado (probablemente como cualquier ciudadanía).

Hay muchos Americanos que miran las Noticias de Fox [Fox News] y creen la propaganda que ofrece Fox bajo una apariencia de noticias. Y muchas de aquellas personas no piensan en otros países u otra gente. Estoy seguro que la candidez de las masas es común por todas partes, pero en un país que tiene tanto poder, esta ignorancia es peligrosa.

Pero no todos los Americanos son colgados por la droga de consumismo. Hay gente que piensa críticamente. Muchos de estos están del izquierda - pero debo ser justo - unos están de la derecha, también. Uno de los aspectos maravillosos de la elección corriente es que la izquierda se ha estimulado de nuevo. Bush nos dio una buena razón para despertarse y actuar. Es alentador saber que hay un porcentaje grande de los Americanos a que ofende la política y métodos de Bush.

[Gil Andrés Sopeña]

Estimado Art:
Veo que tienes una opinión critica de algunos aspectos de la forma de haces las cosas politicas en tu pais.

Te dire , primero que yo admiro a tu pais y su forma de ser,pero con matices y uno de esos matices es la politica que desarrollan del el resto del Mundo, y estoy de acuerdo contigo , en que es muy desafortunada.

Se corre el peligro de que el resto de los Pueblos de Mundo no os entiendan y lo que seria peor , que no os quieran entender, ni tan siquiera oir.

La fuerza ,y el poder hay que administrarlos con mucho cuidado, pues mal usados pueden ser negativos, Querido Art , lo que más os puede hacer daños , es el creer que a un extremo se le contrarresta ( o combate) con el otro extremo.

Admiro que tengais el valor de decir lo que pensais libremente.

Gracias y Democracia

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translated by Art

Dear Art:
I see that you have a critical opinion of some aspects of the way of doing political things in your country.

I will tell you, first, that I admire your country and its way of being -- but with qualifications and one of these qualifications is the policies that they have developed in relation to the rest of the world, and I agree with you that it is very unfortunate.

One runs the risk that the rest of the world's peoples will not understand you, or even worse, that they would not want to understand you or even listen to you.

Force and power must be administered with a lot of care, since if abused they can become negatives.

Dear Art, what can do more damage to you is to believe that one extreme [must?] oppose (or fight with ) the other extreme.

I admire that you have the courage to say freely what you think.

Thanks and [here's to] democracy

[Art]

I agree that polarization into extremes doesn't help. I'm reminded of the strident polarization that occurred before the Spanish Civil War. It seems obvious in hind sight that some compromises would have prevented horrendous suffering. Why didn't that occur? Was it possible to resolve the conflict peacefully?

The problem is that it is very easy to manipulate us humans into being emotional and polarized. So when one side uses these cynical techniques, how can those who disagree respond effectively? Sadly, talking calmly and logically doesn't seem to do much when the emotions dominate. As Kerry has recently realized, if he ignored the vicious lies and attacks mounted by Republicans against him, the average citizen simply believes these things, no matter how ridiculous they seem to the rest of us.

Democracy and sensitive discussion of issues are difficult to keep going. Fascism must seem easier to those with the power. Does it seem to those of you in Asturias that the US is heading toward Fascism?

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Estoy de acuerdo que la polarización en extremos no ayuda nada. Me recuerda de la polarización estridente que ocurrió antes de la Guerra Civil Española. Parece obvio en retrospectiva que algunos compromisos habrían prevenido un sufrimiento horrendo. ¿Por qué no ocurrió esto? Era posible resolver el conflicto pacíficamente?

El problema es que es muy fácil manipularnos -- a nosotros los humanos -- para que seamos emocional y polarizado. ¿Por lo tanto, cuándo un lado usa estas técnicas cínicas, como pueden responder con eficacia los que discrepan? Tristemente, hablar con calma y lógicamente no parece tener mucho efecto cuando las emociones dominan. Como ha comprendido recientemente Kerry, si él no hiciera caso de las mentiras y ataques viciosas montados por Republicanos contra él, el ciudadano medio simplemente cree estas cosas, no importa como ridículo parecen al resto de nosotros.

La democracia y la discusión sensible de cuestiones son difíciles de mantener. El fascismo debe parecer más fácil a aquellos con el poder. ¿Parece a nuestros amigos en Asturias que los EU van en dirección del Fascismo?

[Berodia]

Art, no solo creo que EEUU va hacía el fascismo, sino todo el mundo llamado "civilizado". No un fascismo violento del tipo Hitler, Mussolini, o Stalin, protagonizado por "boneheads". No. Un fascismo, que avanza poco a poco, que nos come las libertades, sin que apenas nos demos cuenta, con diversas excusas como pueden ser la seguridad, la lucha antiterrorista, o en temas más intrascendentes, como la lucha contra el tabaco, la defensa de la "moralidad" pública, etc...

Un fascismo muy difícil de combatir porque usa la democracia y se hace en nombre de ella. Hasta diría un fascismo escondido detrás de propuestas hechas con toda la buena voluntad del mundo, pero sin atender las posibles consecuencias que puedan traer.

Por ejemplo, aquí hay una ley antiterrorista que permite tener a un inculpado detenido incomunicado varios días. Pero esto que debería solo ser usado contra muy pocas personas, es aprovechado por la policía con personas que poco tienen que ver con el terrorismo y si con ciertas ideologías contrarias al estado español.

Lo vemos también, como por cualquier motivo, internet, espacio de libertad, es acusado de ser instrumento delictivo, y como surgen "bienpensantes" pidiendo censura en internet.
El estado, como representante y herramienta del poder económico, quiere controlarnos. Su esencia es totalitarista, y si desaparece su contrapoder vamos todos camino del fascismo.

Mi biblia : 1984, Orwell.

Un saludo.

*Ya sé que Stalin era "comunista", pero los métodos son los mismos.

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translated by Art

Art, not only believe that the U.S.A. has been heading toward fascismo, but everybody "civilized," as well. Not a violent fascism of the type [associated with] Hitler, Mussolini, or Stalin, carried out by "boneheads" [skinheads?]. No. A fascism, that advances little by little, that gobbles up our liberties, without us even realizing it [or with us barely noticing], with diverse excuses which could be security, the antiterrorist fight, or in less significant matters, such as the fight against tobacco, the defense of "public morality," etc.

[This is] a fascism [that is] very difficult to fight because it uses democracy and is done in the name of democracy. I'd even go so far as to say [that this is] a fascism hidden behind proposals made with all the good will of the world, but without taking into count all of the possible consequences that it could bring.

For example, there is an antiterrorist law here that allows [the government] to hold an accused person under arrest and incomunicado for several days [Art: I assume this means without contact with outside world or lawyers]. But this [law] which was supposed to have been used only against very few people, is being taken advantage of by the police against people who have little to do with terrorism and of course against those whose ideologies are in opposition to the Spanish government.

We also see, for whatever reason, the Internet -- that arena of freedom --being accused of being a criminal instrument, and so there have arise "sanctimonious goody-goodies" requesting censorship of the Internet.

The state, as representative and tool of the economic powers, wants to control us. Its essence is totalitarian, and if the [its] anti-establishment opposition disappears, we'll go all way into fascism.

My bible: 1984, Orwell.

Best wishes.

* Yes, I know that Stalin was a "communist", but the methods are the same.

[Miguel Angel]

Art, hace mucho que Estados Unidos se dirige hacia el fascismo, al menos desde Ronald Reagan, si entendemos el fascismo en un sentido amplio. En un sentido amplio, es fascismo el pensamiento único del que se habla tanto. También lo es lo "políticamente correcto" (¡cuanto recuerda ese término al estalinismo,el fascismo y el falangismo!) . Es fascismo cuando sólo se permite una forma de pensar, bajo la excusa que sea. Cuando no se admite la disensión, cuando se impone el patriotismo a costa de lo que sea, bajo la excusa de que lo contrario nos debilita frente al enemigo. Es fascimo cuando se impone la violencia como primera y única solución a los conflictos. Es fascismo cuando se exalta al lider, a pesar de lo que diga y haga, porque se asume que todo lo que dice y hace es bueno porque viene de él. Es fascismo cuando no se participa en política y se deja a los gobernantes, que saben lo que hacen mejor que los gobernados. En la España franquista era habitual decir "soy apolítico", lo cual ya era una forma de hacer política, aunque en contra de uno mismo. Se atribuye a Franco haberle dicho a cierto intelectual "Haga como yo no se meta en política",lo cual es muy definitorio del personaje. Primero el miedo, luego la decepción, nos ha hecho a los españoles desertar de la política. Pero hay otras cosas de Estados Unidos que nos recuerdan el franquismo,no solo el culto a la bandera y el himno nacional. En España había también la asignatura de Formación del Espíritu Nacional, por supuesto dentro de las ideas falangistas.

Pero en todo esto siempre vuelve a notarse la presencia del fantasma de Orwell y "1984". Una de las leyes del Partido en ese libro era "La guerra es la paz". Cuando la gente está preocupada por una guerra, no se preocupa de que le faltan ciertas cosas, como la libertad. La guerra es la paz para los gobernantes. No hay que olvidar que el mundo descrito por Orwell vivía en una guerra continúa e interminable. A veces parece que George Bush lee más de lo que pensamos.

Un saludo.

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translated by Miguel Angel himself with a bit of help
(thanks, Miguel Angel! -- Art)

Art, the United States has been heading toward Fascism for a long time now, at least since Ronald Reagan's time, if we understand "Fascism" in its broad sense. In a broad sense, Fascism is the "there's only one-way of thinking" that they are talking about so much. It is also the "PC -- politically correct"-- this word really reminds me of Stalinism, Fascism, and Falangism! Fascism is when they only allow one way of thinking, whatever the excuse is. Fascism is when dissension is not alowed, when patriotism is imposed on us, under the excuse that the contrary makes us weak when we have to face to the enemy. Fascism is when violence is the first and only solution to conflicts. Fascism is when they exalt the leader, whatever he says or does, because all he says or does is good. Fascism is when you don't take part in politics and you leave it to the ruler, who know what to do better than the people ruled. During Francoism, in Spain it was common to say "I'm apolitical", which was a way to take part in politics, but against oneself. It is said that Franco said to an intellectual: "Do as I do: don't take part in politics." First fear, and later disillusionment, make us desert from politics. But there are things in America that remind us of Francoism, and not only the worship of the flag or the national anthem. During Francoism, in Spanish schools there was the subject of "Formación del Espiritu Nacional" [National Spirit Education], in order to educate people into Falangist ideology, to form good citizens...good Falangists citizens, of course.

But I perceive Orwell's ghost. One of the statements of the Party in this book [1984] was: "war is peace". When people are concerned about war, they don't pay attention to the fact that they lack other things like freedom. War is peace for rulers. Don't forget that the world which Orwell described experienced continued and neverending war. Sometimes it seems as if George Bush has read more than that we think.

Greatings

[Gil Andrés Sopeña]

A la pregunta de " Si mi pais se va hacia el fascisno", que pregunta Art yo contestaria , que no es hacia el fascismo ,pero si hacia una forma de ver el mundo desde un punto de vista dictatorial, me explico: Internamente es y se comporta como una democracia, aunque sea dominada por el dinero, politica incluida.

Pero esa democracia tiene una visión del resto del Mundo, como si los demás fuesemos sus subditos, y ademas el "poder" que creen representar, se lo hubiera proporcionado un Dios todo poderoso y puedan disponer de vidas y haciendas ( vidas de los que discrepan y Haciendas, que es lo mismo que disponer de los bienes de otros por la fuerza) y no hace falta que sea yo el que de nombres , y lugares.

Yo creo que si su pais se dedicase a patrocinar y apoyar democrácias en todo el mundo, seguro que tendria el respeto de todos y conseguiria los fines comerciales y de negocios muy buenos.

Pero mientras el dinero para los politicos, lo pongan , las fabricas de armamento y las grandes petroleras, entreo otras empresas ( todas ellas indirectamente y sin que quede constancia) seran los que deciden lo que se hace y como se hace y los politicos de todo el mundo "bailan" el baile que les tocan.
Esperemos que los votantes piensen en Kerry.
Deseemos que la Iglesia de dedique a las cosas espirituales y no a la política.
Salud y Democracia

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translated by Art

As for the question that Art asks, "Is my country is heading toward Fascism," I would answer that it's not moving toward fascism, but toward a way of seeing the world from a dictatorial point of view. I'll explain: Internally it is and behaves as a democracy, though it is dominated by money, included politics.

But this democracy has a vision of the rest of the World, as if the rest of us we were its subjects. In addition, the "power" that they think they represent -- as though bestowed on them by an all powerful God -- they can decide [what happens with] the lives and property [possessions] [of others]. ([I'm talking about] the lives of those who differ with them and as for possessions, that is the same thing as taking by force [for oneself] the property of others). [Art: Probably not translated correctly >>] There's no need for me to name names and places.

I believe that if your country was devoting itself to sponsoring and supporting democracies thoroughout the whole world, surely that would have the respect of all and would obtain the very good commercial and business ends.

As long as money is given to politicians, the armament factories and big petroleum entities, among other companies (all of them indirectly and without any record of it) will be those who decide what is done and how it is done. And politicians of the whole world "dance" the dance [dance to the music] that they play.

Let's hope that the voters think about Kerry.

We'd like the Church to dedicate itself to spiritual things and not to politics.

Best wishes and [Here's to] Democracy

[Art: This was a difficult message to translate. Any corrections to my translations are always welcome!]

[Xose]

There are many reasons to dislike Bush, but the biggest, by far, in my opinion, is that he let bin Laden get away with killing more than 2,000 of our citizens on 9/11.

What happened to "We're going to get him dead or alive?"

While Bush is wasting more than 1,000 brave soldiers' lives and murdering thousands of innocent Iraqi men, women, and children, Osama bin Laden is somewhere in the world, scot-free, planning another attack on the West (which, as we now tragically know, includes Spain).

It makes me so angry to see people defend Bush's irresponsible war, and claim that he is tough on terror. Make no mistake, Bush's misguided and illegal war on Iraq singlehandely squandered our chances of capturing bin Laden in Afghanistan (a war I wholeheartedly support, I might add).

Meanwhile, why don't we see Jenna or Barbara out there in the desert in a hum-vee? Where are Rumsfeld's and Wolfowitz's grandchildren? I'd bet that you won't find them in Falluja. Nope, the poor get to fight this war, like all the others. And now it looks like Bush is gearing up for another draft here in the U.S., based on the fact that the Selective Service has begun re-staffing its offices all over the country. It's sickening.

[Ken Menendez]

I have tried my best to stay out of this discussion, being one that advised Art not to put this kind of dialogue in the Forum, but reading Xose bit of garbage was about all I could take. I read everyone's comments, mostly extreme liberal, anti-Bush, anti-USA, with the exception of Barbara.

Most, if not all of it, is misguided opinion void of fact, and mostly based upon a total dislike of the USA, Bush, Republicans, etc. Hey, maybe you say the Michael Moore movie. Lot's of facts there????????????? Any country that sends it sons and daughters off to war (I am a Vietnam era vet) suffers a great deal when a solider is killed. NO country wants to lose a son or daughter; however, their deaths were for an honorable cause in keeping our country safe, or as safe as it can be given the type of war we are fighting. Deaths so far in Iraq are a lot less than after World War II in the occupation of Germany and Japan. However, every death is sad.

I guess everyone who has blasted Bush and the war on terrorism has read the 9/11 Commission's report. I am reading it. Very dull, but interesting.

Well add me to the Bush believers and one conserative individual who believes we are executing the war of terrorism where ever it takes us. Just as Bush promised after 9/11. Iraq is just one stepping off point. Maybe Syria and Iran, once Iraq and Afghanistan are stabilized, will open their eyes as did Libya, and join the civilized nations. Who knows? Maybe North Korea will join the civilized nations of the world if they see the USA and its allies (not France or Germany, of course) executing a war on terrorist nations. Russia is now learning the hard way, as they too joined the weak nations of France and Germany in not joining the US in combating evil in the world.

About Iraq, I guess in the minds of many it was okay that Sadam Hussein killed hundreds of thousands of his people while the UN sat idly by. Just as the world did with Hitler. It was only Jews and Gypsies then, and with Iraq it was only Kurds, or Sadam's enemies.

If this Forum and this discussion was around in the late 1930's I guess the apologist for Hitler would have been very vocal and Roosevelt and Churchill would have been criticized for being too aggressive and not seeking the opinion of a world body and that world body's approval prior to going to war. Or they just don't have the facts about Hitler to execute a war.

I was very proud of Spain when they joined forces with us, but now I am very disappointed in that government. Spain is not out of the woods yet as it relates to terrorism. You don't buy your way out of it. Burying your head in the sand won't resolve the issue of a war without borders and without nations. This is a war of religion, radical Muslims verses Christians and Jews, and it will not end with Iraq and Afghanistan. Except North Korea, which represents a different group of nuts.

In some of the comments, I get the feeling there is a drive to support John Kerry, and to use the Forum for that support. Well, as a veteran and with other veterans that I know, we consider Kerry high risk on national defense, and truthfully, unpatriotic having let his "band of brothers" down with his comments after he returned from a four month tour of duty in Vietnam. Was it treason, probably not as we define treason, but it was a crowardly act that may have cost many of a POW in Nam many days and nights of misery by their captors.

Well, I have left my self open for replies. But I had to say my piece as I have been holding back for these many weeks.

One point I will make is I will NOT be participating in further dialgoue on this subject now that I have had my say. Knowing full well that my comments will be blasted by the extreme left and neither of us will budge from our beliefs and opinions. Therefore it will be a waste of my time in a meaningless debate.

I have had my say.

God Bless America. God Bless our Troops. God Bless our President.

[Xose]

Most, if not all of it, is misguided opinion void of fact, and mostly based upon a total dislike of the USA, Bush, Republicans, etc.

I'm really tired of everyone on the right accusing anyone who dislikes Bush and his cronies as anti-USA. You on the right do not own the flag, as much as you'd like to. If anything, pro-USA means pro-Constitution, and Bush has tried to override that sacred document unwaiveringly during his illegitimate time in office.

Holding American citizens without trial or access to a lawyer? Unconstitutional. Hence, un-American.

Conducting secret military tribunals in a naval base in Cuba?
Unconstitutional. Un-American.

Setting up a concentration camp in Guantanamo and holding prisoners as "unlawful combatants" so you don't have to play by the Geneva Convention?
Unconstitutional. Un-American.

Stripping away protections from unreasonable searches without a warrant (via the Patriot Act)?
Unconstitutional. Un-American. And REALLY REALLY SCARY.

I love this country. That's why I'm doing everything in my power to make sure Bush and his cabal don't systematically destroy everything it stands for.

And if we're comparing folks to Hitler here, I'd point out that the unprovoked, premeditated, resource grab in Iraq is really reminiscent of the invasion of Poland that started WWII. Let's hope this misguided, short-sighted, wasteful war doesn't have similar repercussions.

[Bob]

Amigos,

I have volunteered to serve as a neutral moderator for the political forum, and therefore will not reveal my personal political views here or elsewhere on the website. All points of view are welcome, but I do ask that everyone address the opinions of others without pejorative labels, and that everyone refrain from writing in terms that could be seen as criticizing the writer rather than the writer's point of view. As Asturians and Asturian-Americans, we all have much more that unites us to one another than we have political opinions that divide us.

While we hold many different political opinions, one good thing about the political discussion forum is that only those who choose to participate need do so. The rest of the website should remain free of overt politics. Personally, I have found that--over the years--I am seldom convinced by the arguments of others, but that I often gain a newfound respect for other points of view through reading well-reasoned critiques of my own opinions and those of others. This often helps me to focus and sharpen my own thinking, and to reconsider some of the reasoning behind my opinions. I urge everyone to express themselves and to continue the dialogue, rather than to express themselves and withdraw from the debate.

I also welcome private communications from any who thinks that he or she has been subject to unfair attack. We can learn much from listening to what others have to say, even if our own opinions remain constant. My sincere thanks to those of you on the far right, on the far left, and of every political persuation in between for you willingness to share your views with me and with others.

Abrazos to all,
Abrazos para todos,
Abrazus pa toos,

Bob Martinez

[Barbara Alonso Novellino]

Hurray!

Ken I have been waiting very patiently for someone who believes as I do and isn't afraid to voice their opinion. In one of my previous posts I said that I was DONE...not because I don't believe in what I believe in, but sometimes I felt that I just didn't want to answer some of the posts made. They made my blood boil...

What about Clinton and his 8 years in Office. What did he do after the 1993 bombing at the WTC...the Cole and various other terrorist acts. He should have done something about it then. Ben Laden was around at that time, if he did something then 3,000 of our fellow Americans would still be alive.

Our Armed Forces is made up of all Volunteers...they know exactly what they are getting into when they join. I don't know of anyone running to Canada or anywhere else.

I sincerely hope that this country continues to profile Mideastern looking people who are getting on planes. If they have nothing to hide they won't be offended. Caucasian people did not bring down the WTC.

Well, Thanks Ken it was an absolute PLEASURE reading your comments.

Abrazos Barbara

[Xose]

Clinton was too smart to launch us into an unwinnable, illegal war that would not achieve any of its objectives, Barbara. He did launch cruise missles to try to kill the terrorists in Afghanistan, but, as I'm sure you can remember, when he tried (and succeeded) to end the Serbian conflict, the right derided him as "the world's policeman." Clinton gave an executive order to have bin Laden killed.

But really, this is not about Clinton, is it? He wasn't President on Sept. 11, was he? He wasn't the president who IGNORED a memo that stated in no uncertain terms that Al Qaida was bent on attacking America on American soil. That was your man Bush. Asleep at the wheel (or on vacation, as usual).

Clinton wasn't the president who hustled the Saudi royal family and the BIN LADENs out of the country when the rest of us were grounded, was he? Your man Bush again. But why would he do that? Maybe because his daddy is on the Saudi payroll? But I digress.

Clinton wasn't perfect, obviously. But bringing him up in this debate, four years after he set foot in the Oval Office, is a red herring. The fact is that 2,000+ Americans are dead, and bin Laden is getting exactly what he wanted: the slow dissolution of civil rights in the U.S., a gigantic new terrorist training ground in Iraq, and a pointless war that sucks BILLIONS of dollars and thousands of policemen, firemen, and National Guardsmen away from real homeland security in the U.S. All that lies right at the feet of George W. Bush. We are 100% less secure now in this country thanks to this idiotic misadventure called the Iraq war.

[Barbara Alonso Novellino]

You know Jody when I read your posts I have to shake my head and wonder where you are coming from? I can't believe that someone would have such a hatred for President Bush. You seem to attack anyone who doesn't agree with you...we have had our go arounds before...

Yes, PRESIDENT BUSH is my man...I pray everyday that he will be our President for 4 more years for the sake of my Granddaughter and all the children her age.

Yes, after 9/11 Ben Laden's family did leave the United States. It was Richard Clark who gave the ok...something that has been stated over and over again.

You think we are 100% less secure? He has shown determination and we are safer now during his time as President. We are rid of that murdered Saddem Hussein and most of his henchman. Afgan people are getting ready to vote.

The National Guardsman and Reservists who are in Iraq knew that this was a possibility when they joined. I have a Son in the Air National Guard and he is faced with the possibility of going over...and he would go.

I don't intend to go on and on with this...we have had this disagreement before.

[Xose]

Well, I think most folks sign up for the Guard to help protect the folks at home, get some money for college to better their lot in life, and because they love their country (like we all do here). I'm sure that most of them didn't count on two- and three-year tours in some crappy desert, getting shot at to secure Halliburton's oil fields. I can't speak for your son, obviously, but I sincerely hope that he doesn't have to go to Iraq.

All the brave folks in the military ask is that we don't send them into harm's way over a lie. That's where they are now, in my view. It just adds to the irony that the guy who put them there didn't even show up for his service in the Guard. Too busy I guess.

I can respect your views and the views of other Republicans here, but that doesn't mean I have to respect that fool squatting in the White House.