Asturian-American Migration Forum

I woke up this morning to the news that terrorists have bombed the transit system in London. Many people were killed and injured.

The people in London where going to work when they were attacked. This also happened in the USA, Spain and now London.

The Joy of receiving the Olympics in 2012 was marred by this horrific act.

We in the "free world" have to realize that we are AT WAR...and anyone who doesn't believe that is mistaken.

Again, my sympathy and prayers go out to the citizens of London.
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Trad. Terechu

Me levanté esta mañana con la noticia del ataque terrorista al sistema de transporte de Londres. Hay muchos muertos y heridos.

Los londineses iban a trabajar cuando les atacaron. Lo mismo que pasó en los EE.UU., España y ahora Londres.

La alegría de que les concedieran los juegos olímpicos del 2012 quedó empañada por este acto horrendo.

Nosotros los del "mundo libre" tenemos que darnos cuenta de que estamos EN GUERRA...y el que no lo crea está muy equivocado.

De nuevo, mi solidaridad y mis oraciones para los ciudadanos de Londres.

"Jihad" means war and these animals have declared war unilaterally quite a while back. I believe it started with the killing of Egypt's president Sadat. Unfortunately this is not a "manly" war, it's a simmering, sneaky, cowardly war that can't be fought in the traditional way, with armies and tanks. That would be like killing flies with cannon balls, as we say in Spain.

Luckily, the ones responsible for the Madrid bombings are all standing trial now (over 100 of them) and will rot in jail. A police force with adequate means and an efficient judicial system, combined with brave and well protected eyewitnesses is what it takes.
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"Yihad" significa guerra y estos animales declararon la guerra unilateralmente hace tiempo, creo que empezó con el asesinato del presidente egipcio Anwar El-Sadat. Por desgracia esta es una guerra poco "masculina" (por decirlo de alguna manera) , es de fuego lento, traicionera y cobarde que no se puede combatir a la manera tradicional, con ejércitos y tanques. Sería matar moscas a cañonazos, como decimos en España.

Por suerto los responsables del atentado de Madrid están todos ante el juez (más de 100) y se pudrirán en la cárcel. Un buen cuerpo de policía con medios adecuados y un sistema judicial eficaz, junto con testigos valientes y protegidos es lo que hace falta.

Siéntolo abondo polos muertos y los sos familiares. Pero tamién m'alcuerdo de los muertos y los familiares n'Irak, Afganistán, Chechenia, Palestina, Sahara, Colombia,.....

La griesca nelOriente Prósimu, nun la entamaron los integristes, entamáronla la CIA y el MOSAD, al financiar a estos grupos, o los sos antecesores, pa frenar la expansión del panarabismu laicu y socialista.

D'aquellos polvos vienen estes llamuergues.

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Lo siento mucho por los muertos y sus familires. Pero también me acuerdo de los muertos y los familiares en Irak, Afganistán, Chechenia, Palestina, Sahara, Colombia,.....

La guerra en el Oriente Próximo no la empezaron los integristas, la empezaron la CIA y el MOSAD, al financiar a estos grupos a sus antecesores, para frenar la expansión de panarabismo laico y socialista.

De aquellos polvos vienen estos lodos.

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trans. Art

I'm very sorry about the dead and their families. But also I remember the dead and their relatives in Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechenia, Palestine, Sahara, Colombia.....

The war in the Mideast was not begun by the reactionaries; the CIA and the MOSAD began it, by having financed these groups and their predecessors, to stop the expansion of secular and socialist pan-arabism.

From the dust comes the mud.

Yesterday, Tower Hamlets employees were on alert. One of the bombs was in between the boundaries of Tower Hamlets and City of London, in Aldgate. More than 200 admissions to the Royal London Hospital, Whitechapel.

Ayeri, los funcionarios de Tower Hamlets tuviémos na lerta. Una delas bombas tevo llugar nentre Tower Hamlets y City of London, en Aldgate. Hebo mas de 200 heríos nel Royal London Hospital, Whitechapel.

Employees of the Social Services were asked at 10:20 am to discharge as many patients as possible to make room for the new admissions. Telephone lines collapsed, mobile networks switched off, we sent patients home, arranged meals on wheel, homecare, etc. We used emergency powers, jumping all protocols and placing patients in sheltered accommodation, nursing homes, etc. Those with counselling training were sent to the Royal London to assist nurses and doctors to break the sad news to relatives.

A los funcionarios delos Servicios Sociales a les 10:20 am mandáronnos evacuar cuanto mas pacientes meyor. pa jacer sitiu a los heríos. Las líneas telefónicas nun funcionaben, redes de telefonía móvil desconectas, etc.. enviémos pacientes a casa, reservémosyos comía, asistentes, etc. Usémos poderes d'emerxencia, saltémonos tolos reglamentos y pusimos pacientes en pisos tutelaos, residencias d'ancianos, etc. Cualesquier que tuviere titulación de psicólogo, enviáronlo al Royal London a ayudar a las enfermeras y médicos a dicíyos las malas noticias a las familias.

At around 6pm, some of us started to make our way back home. Some of use arrived home 3/4 hours later, as there was no underground transport. I was lucky, as I live at 1 1/2 mile from work.

Hacia las 6pm, dalgunos jómonos pa casa. Dalgún arrivó 3 o 4 horas mas tardi, nun habia metro. Yo tebi suerte, vivo a milla y media del trabayu.

At the end of the day, Royal London, London Chest, etc.. were able to assist all the injured ones. Today, HM the Queen came to say thank you. Whoever was responsible, they have not achieved their goal. We are not scared, and will not stop our routine.

Circa la nuechi, el Royal London, London Chest, etc. ya bían asistido a toos los heríos. Guey, SA la Reina vieno a decínos gracias. Cualesquier que jora'l responsable, nun consiguieren el oxetivo. Nun tenemos miéo, nun pararemos la nuestra rutina.

Zancañeru,
me alegro que estés bien. Yo tengo una amiga que trabaja en el British Museum y tuvieron que quedarse allí a dormir por falta de transporte, su boca de metro de Russell Square fue una de las afectadas. Tú al menos puedes ir y venir a pie. Por lo demás, y por suerte, aquí se están recibiendo pocas imágenes de la carnicería. I hope it stays that way, the less publicity they give these psychos the better.


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I'm glad to hear you're well. I have a friend working at the British Museum and she had to spend the night at the museum, because the Russell Square tube station was hit. At least you can come and go on foot. Other than and luckily we are hardly receiving images of the slaughter. Espero que siga así, cuanto menos publicidad se les dé a estos psicópatas mejor.

argayu wrote:Siéntolo abondo polos muertos y los sos familiares. Pero tamién m'alcuerdo de los muertos y los familiares n'Irak, Afganistán, Chechenia, Palestina, Sahara, Colombia,.....

La griesca nelOriente Prósimu, nun la entamaron los integristes, entamáronla la CIA y el MOSAD, al financiar a estos grupos, o los sos antecesores, pa frenar la expansión del panarabismu laicu y socialista.

D'aquellos polvos vienen estes llamuergues.

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Lo siento mucho por los muertos y sus familires. Pero también me acuerdo de los muertos y los familiares en Irak, Afganistán, Chechenia, Palestina, Sahara, Colombia,.....

La guerra en el Oriente Próximo no la empezaron los integristas, la empezaron la CIA y el MOSAD, al financiar a estos grupos a sus antecesores, para frenar la expansión de panarabismo laico y socialista.

De aqullos polvos vienen estos lodos.

Argayu, paez mentira pa tí!
¿Qué tien que ver el culo con les cuatro témpores? Ye como justificar que los polacos pongan bombes en el tren de Sóller, porque en Mallorca hay muchos alemanes y los alemanes invadieron Polonia en 1939.

Aquí estamos hablando de gente que son depredadores, asesinos por gusto. Como no pueden asesinar sin más, se inventan alguna causa, desde la liberación de Palestina hasta la reunificación de ABBA, todo ello por mandato divino y así automaticamente tienen a un par de millones de garrulos apoyándolos.

¿Qué pasa con ETA? Lo mismo, que nun ye más que un comederu de vagos por un llau y de asesinos pol otru. Pero supieron vendese como libertadores del "oprimido" pueblo vasco y ahí los tienes, Otegi comprando chalets en Comillas.
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Argayu, you surprise me
What's that got to do with it? It's like justifiying the Poles bombing the Soller train, because there are so many Germans in Mallorca and because the Germans invaded Poland in 1939.

We are talking about predators here, people who like to kill for pleasure. Since they can't just go around killing other people, they make up some "Cause", from the liberation of Palestine to the reunification of ABBA, claiming it was by God's command to ensure that automatically a couple of million idiots will back them.

What about ETA? It's the same story, it's just a bunch of freeloaders and murderers come together, who were smart enough to sell themselves as the freedom fighters of the "opressed" Basque people; and there you have them - Otegi just bought himself a luxury home in Comillas.

Yo nun toi xustificando los atentaos. Lo único que me saca de quiciu ye la hipocresía de los medios y de les mases.

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Trad. Terechu

I'm not justifying the attacks. It's just the hypocrisy of the media and the masses that gets on my nerves.

que cosa mas horrible aunque la verda ye que nun sorprende a naide. Llebabamos tiempu esperandolo.

La grandisima diferencia con españa ye que nesti momentu de dolor tou´l mundu ta coles autoridaes y la union ye la fuerza de les democracies , en uk nadie va aproveschase d´esto pa intentar derribar al gobiernu tamos xunios nel dolor. Como dixo el primer misnistru blair nun mos vamos rendir , la vida normal tien que continuar los terroristes nun deben dictar la nuestra forma de vivir o llevar los nuestros asuntos. Que naide nun piense otra cosa que el nuestru modelu de convivencia sigue intactu y que los musulmanes de la nuestra ciuda tan con nos nuestru dolor.

Yo tuve la suerte de atopa me de vacaciones en xixon dende el martes. Tolos mis collacios y companeros etc tan bien pero aun asina esti ye un fechu que nos entristez profundamente a toos. Una persona que conozo vio volar el autobus aunque nun-y pasare nada el recuerdu acompanaralu tola vida.

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What a horrible thing ! although this anything but surprising we have been expecting this for quite a while now.

What should makes britain proud is that , unlike in spain , in this moment of grieve everyone is behnid the legitimate authorities. Unity against those who try to destroy us and our freedom is a must. Normal life must go on , the beasts will not dictate our political agenda or the way we should be living. Our convivence remains intact and bristish muslims join us with their prays in this moment of common grief.

I was lucky enough to be away on holidays while this attack happens and all my friends and colleagues are ok but this is something that affect us all nevertheless. One of my mates saw the bus blowing up , he is fine but I am sure the memory of that will stay with him for the rest of his life.

Ayalgueru, esa diferencia no es la única. En el Estado español 9 de cada 10 personas estaban previamente en contra de nuestra participación en la guerra de Iraq, y aún así y todo el señor Aznar y su gobierno se pasaron esta postura por el arco del triunfo. Si no me equivoco, eso no sucede en la misma proporción entre la población británica. Por lo tanto, no hay un número tan grande de personas cuestionando la política bélica del señor Blair. Y otra cosa no menos importante, el señor Blair y su gobierno no le están mintiendo descaradamente a la población diciendo que el atentado fue cosa de unos moros del IRA.

Saludos.

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trans. Art

Ayalgueru, this difference is not the only one. In the Spanish State, 9 of every 10 persons were in opposition to our participation in the war of Iraq beforehand, and even so Mr. Aznar and his government [let us know that they didn't give a damn about our opinions]. If I am not mistaken, this didn't happen in the same proportion among the British population. Therefore, there isn't such a large number of persons questioning the warlike politics of Mr. Blair. And another thing, no less important, is that Mr. Blair and his government are not lying shamelessly to the population saying that the attempt was a thing of a few Moors of the IRA.

Best wishes.

without any intention of being controversial ,,

the governement at the time did not handle the crisis in the best possible way , surely not !

but from that to call them murderers 24 hours before polling day there is a long way , and regardless of what our opinion is on the iraq campaign the sad fact is that the terrorist got what they wanted and that is bad in itself since it would encourage them to strike again.

greetings

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I thought this was very interesting....

Strong words from Germany...

Matthias Dapfner, Chief Executive of the huge German publishing house
Axel Springer AG, has written a blistering attack in DIE WELT (The
World), Germany's largest daily newspaper, against the timid reaction of
Europe in the face of the Islamic threat. Nov 04

EUROPE - THY NAME IS COWARDICE

Commentary by Mathias Dapfner CEO, Axel Springer, AG)

A few days ago Henry Broder wrote in WELT AM SONNTAG (Sunday World):
"Europe - your family name is appeasement." It's a phrase you can't get
out of your head because it's so terribly true. Appeasement cost
millions of Jews and non-Jews their lives as England and France, allies
at the time, negotiated and hesitated too long before they noticed that
Hitler had to be fought, not bound to toothless agreements.

Appeasement legitimized and stabilized Communism in the Soviet Union,
then East Germany, then all the rest of Eastern Europe where for
decades, inhuman, suppressive, murderous governments were glorified as
the ideologically correct alternative to all other possibilities.

Appeasement crippled Europe when genocide ran rampant in Kosovo, and
even though we had absolute proof of ongoing mass-murder, we Europeans
debated and debated and debated, and were still debating when finally
the Americans had to come from halfway around the world, into Europe yet
again, and do our work for us.

Rather than protecting democracy in the Middle East, European
appeasement, camouflaged behind the fuzzy word "equidistance," now
countenances suicide bombings in Israel by fundamentalist Palestinians.

Appeasement generates a mentality that allows Europe to ignore nearly
500,000 victims of Saddam's torture and murder machinery and, motivated
by the self-righteousness of the peace-movement, has the gall to issue
bad grades to George Bush... Even as it is uncovered that the loudest
critics of the American action in Iraq made illicit billions, no, TENS
of billions, in the corrupt UN. Oil-for-Food program. And now we are
faced with a particularly grotesque form of appeasement... How is
Germany reacting to the escalating violence by Islamic fundamentalists
in Holland and elsewhere? By suggesting that we really should have a
"Muslim Holiday" in Germany.
I wish I were joking, but I am not. A substantial fraction of our
(German) Government, and if the polls are to be believed, the German
people, actually believe that creating an Official State "Muslim
Holiday" will somehow spare us from the wrath of the fanatical
Islamists. One cannot help but recall Britain's Neville Chamberlain
waving the laughable treaty signed by Adolf Hitler, and declaring
European "Peace in our time".

What else has to happen before the European public and its political
leadership get it? There is a sort of crusade underway, an especially
perfidious crusade consisting of systematic attacks by fanatic Muslims,
focused on civilians, directed against our free, open Western societies,
and intent upon Western Civilization's utter destruction.

It is a conflict that will most likely last longer than any of the great
military conflicts of the last century - a conflict conducted by an
enemy that cannot be tamed by "tolerance" and "accommodation" but is
actually spurred on by such gestures, which have proven to be, and will
always be taken by the Islamists for signs of weakness.

Only two recent American Presidents had the courage needed for
anti-appeasement: Reagan and Bush. His American critics may quibble
over the details, but we Europeans know the truth. We saw it first hand:
Ronald Reagan ended the Cold War, freeing half of the German people from
nearly 50 years of terror and virtual slavery. And Bush, supported only
by the Social Democrat Blair, acting on moral conviction, recognized the
danger in the Islamic War against democracy. His place in history will
have to be evaluated after a number of years have passed.

In the meantime, Europe sits back with charismatic self-confidence in
the multicultural corner, instead of defending liberal society's values
and being an attractive center of power on the same playing field as the
true great powers, America and China.

On the contrary - we Europeans present ourselves, in contrast to those
"arrogant Americans", as the World Champions of "tolerance", which even
(Germany's Interior Minister) Otto Schily justifiably criticizes. Why?
Because we're so moral? I fear it's more because we're so
materialistic, so devoid of a moral compass.

For his policies, Bush risks the fall of the dollar, huge amounts of
additional national debt, and a massive and persistent burden on the
American economy - because unlike almost all of Europe, Bush realizes
what is at stake - literally everything.

While we criticize the "capitalistic robber barons" of America because
they seem too sure of their priorities, we timidly defend our Social
Welfare systems. Stay out of it! It could get expensive! We'd rather
discuss reducing our 35-hour workweek or our dental coverage, or our 4
weeks of paid vacation... Or listen to TV pastors preach about the need
to "reach out to terrorists. To understand and forgive".

These days, Europe reminds me of an old woman who, with shaking hands,
frantically hides her last pieces of jewelry when she notices a robber
breaking into a neighbor's house.

Appeasement? Europe, thy name is Cowardice.

Maybe we should be aware that “Welt am Sonntag” belongs to the Axel Springer media group, who also publishes the delirious “Bild”, which represents Germany’s Far Right. These crazed media Popes have a lot to do with fascism raising its ugly head again.

It’s ironic that a German newspaper should critizise Europe’s “appeasement” policy, when it was Germany who started WWI, with all its disastrous consequences, not the least of which was the creation of artificial states in the Near and Middle East with the ensuing conflicts that are still ongoing. The Germans also started WWII which left over 40 million dead and the surviving Jews scrambling for safety to Israel/Palestine.

European armies are like Pancho Villa’s gang compared to US Armed Forces. Spain has an army of less than 100.000 men, for instance. No European country can seriously consider declaring war on anybody, they wouldn’t know where they put the tank keys.

At any rate, let’s say we don’t enjoy wars. No American has lived through a war in his country, never on your own soil, but all older Europeans have. That’s the major difference. Another reason is that Europe’s oil companies do not dictate our foreign policy, as they do in the USA, nor do they have the power to place its former employees in the White House.

At all events, the recklessness of starting a war with Irak, just to control the oil and gas fields but making believe it was to overthrow a dictator, is yet another humiliation to the Arab and Muslim community, and all we got out of it is increased international terror attacks. If GWB wants to overthrow dictators why not begin with the Saudi royal family? And how about Korea or China? I believe it was Argayu who cited the Bible: “Sow winds and you shall reap tempests”. Nothing justifies terrorism, but this invasion has rekindled a deep resentment. We have 12 million muslims in Europe. As I’m writing this, two Moroccans are fixing a broken water pipe in my hallway. Our reality is quite different.

There is absolutely no evidence that supports the idea that the war in Iraq is about Muslim terrorism. (Sadly, many Americans believe this anyway.)

This war has, however, strengthened hatred of the West and given terrorist opportunists reason to celebrate.

I am also astounded by Bush's short-sighted policy of permitting torture. Can any good come of that? I can't imagine how. America, land of torturers? We're better than that, aren't we?!

Sure, we need to stand up to terrorism. But we also need to stand against the terror we ourselves create.

To the Iraqi people, we must seem like the terrorists because of the hell we've unleashed on them. Of course, a large part of the terror comes from the hands of those extremists who want to resist the American military, democracy, and perhaps change itself. But we're not virginal.

As I understood what he wrote earlier, Argayu was saying that Western actions over the past century or more have led us into this mess. We (or our governments) are not innocent bystanders. When we support dictators, interfere with the desires of a people, and so forth, eventually there will be a price to pay.

This doesn't justify terrorism. I'm simply saying that we hold partial blame for its development. It is predictable behavior. We could have (and should have) known better.

Our best option now may be to act in ways that reduce overall anxiety and emotionalism.

Carlos has asked me, "Why have there been no posts lamenting the suffering in Egypt?" As fellow human beings, the suffering of any of us should give us pain, shouldn't it?

Well, yes, but being human we generally ignore the troubles of other clans, don't we? And so it is that we find ourselves enmeshed in conflicts, all because we can't bring ourselves to respect each other fully.

If we were more pragmatic and rational, we'd act differently. It's too bad we're not.

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No hay absolutamente ningunas pruebas que apoyan la idea que la guerra en Irak trata del terrorismo Musulmán. (Tristemente, muchos Americanos creen esto de todos modos.)

Esta guerra, sin embargo, ha reforzado el odio del Oeste y ha dado a los terroristas oportunistos oportunidades de divertirse.

También soy asombrado por la política miope de Bush de permitir la tortura. ¿Puede cualquier bueno salga de esto? No puedo imaginarlo. ¿América, tierra de torturadores? ¡¿Somos mejor que esto, verdad?!

Seguramente tenemos que encararnos con el terrorismo. Pero también tenemos que hacerlo frente al terror que nosotros mismos creamos.

A los iraquíes, debemos parecer a los terroristas, debido al infierno que hemos soltado sobre ellos. Desde luego, una gran parte del terror viene de las manos de aquellos extremistas que quieren resistirse a los militares americanos, la democracia, y quizás el cambio. Pero no somos virginales.

Como entendí lo que escribió antes, Argayu dijo que acciones Occidentales durante el siglo pasado o más nos han conducido en este lío. Nosotros (o nuestros gobiernos) no somos espectadores inocentes. Cuando apoyamos a dictadores, interferimos con los deseos de un pueblo, etcétera, etcétera, eventualmente habrá un precio que tenemos que pagar.

Esto no justifica el terrorismo. Simplemente digo que somos culpable parcialmente de su desarrollo. Es un comportamiento previsible. Nosotros podríamos (y deberíamos) conocer mejor.

Nuestra opción mejor ahora puede deber actuar de los modos que reducen la ansiedad total y la emotividad.

Carlos me ha preguntado, "¿Por qué no han estado ningunos postes lamentando el sufrimiento en Egipto?" ¿Como seres humanos, el sufrimiento de cualquiera de nosotros debería darnos el dolor, verdad?

¿Bueno, sí, pero ser humano generalmente no hacemos caso de los problemas de otros clanes, verdad? Y entonces, así es que nos encontramos enredados en conflictos, todo porque no podemos traernos para respetar el uno al otro totalmente.

Si fuéramos más pragmáticos y racionales, actuaríamos de manera diferente. Qué lastima que no somos así.