Illegal immigration to Spain

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Tue May 30, 2006 10:47 am

I just read that Austria, Britain, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, the Netherlands and Portugal have agreed to help prevent illegal immigration from north Africa to Spain, and wonder about the parallels or lack of them with the current immigration debate that is taking place in the EEUU.

How do Asturians see the issue? Is it a probem? What are the economic consequences, etc. Most of the seem to head for the Canary Islands.

There is a series of articles on the issue at

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5028506.stm

Terechu · Post by **Terechu** » Tue May 30, 2006 5:21 pm

Good question, Bob. Actually half the "illegal" inmigrants get off the plane in Madrid and enter legally with a Schengen tourist visa. The other half (Eastern Europeans) enters via the French/Spanish border at La Jonquera (Catalonia)- since it is a EU border and nobody stops them.

The recent massive arrivals of Senegalese to the Canary Islands is a somewhat new turn of events, since Morocco is now patroling their borders and won't let the traffickers operate in their territory as they have until now. I suppose they've made a good financial deal with the EU in return.
However, that means that all those Africans who until now crossed the Sahara to Morocco and from there took the short boat trip to Spain, now have to embark in Senegal and Mauritania and cross to the Canary Islands. It's a miracle they arrive at all. Last week a boat was found off Barbados with 11 mummyfied bodies on board - they had been lost at sea for 3 months.

When you have nothing, you have nothing to lose and hunger is always worse. Black Africans are not the problem, they're just very visible right now. The real problem is the incredibly criminal and violent gangs made up of former Yugoslavia-war mercenaries, the plague of thieving Rumanians, and the hired hitmen from Colombia. Unfortunately, many people, incited by the media, no longer bother to differentiate between inmigrants and a criminals: if you're Colombian you are involved in drug traffic, if you're a Slav you're a war criminal, if you're a Rumanian gypsy you are a thief, and so on... until fascism raises its ugly head again.
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Buena pregunta, Bob. En realidad la mitad de los inmigrantes "ilegales" se bajan del avión en Madrid y entran legalmente con un visado de turista. La otra mitad (europeos del este) entran por la frontera franco-española de la Jonquera (Cataluña) - ya que es una frontera intracomunitaria no les para nadie.

Las recientes llegadas masivas de senegaleses a Canarias es una especie de cambio de estrategia, ya que Marruecos ahora está patrullando en sus fronteras y no permite operaciones de tráfico de personas en su territorio como hasta ahora. Supongo que habrán hecho un buen trato monetario con la UE a cambio.

Si embargo, eso significa que todos los africanos que hasta ahora cruzaban el Sáhara hasta Marruecos para luego cruzar en barco a España, ahora tienen que embarcarse en Senegal y cruzar a Canarias. Es un milagro que lleguen siquiera. La semana pasado encontraron una embarcación en la costa de Barbados con los cadáveres momificados de 11 senegaleses que llevaban 3 meses perdidos en alta mar.

Pero cuando no tienes nada, no tienes nada que perder y además: más cornadas da el hambre. Los africanos subsaharianos no son el problema, sólo son muy visibles ahora mismo. El problema auténtico lo tenemos con las bandas increiblemente criminales y violentas de antiguos mercenarios de la guerra de Yugoslavia y Chechenia; la plaga de ladrones rumanos y los sicarios colombianos. Lamentablemente mucha gente, azuzada por los medios de comunicación, no hace distinciones entre inmigrantes y criminales. Si eres colombiano eres traficante de drogas, si eres eslavo eres un criminal de guerra, si eres un gitano rumano eres un ladrón y así sucesivamente...hasta que el fascismo vuelva a resucitar.

Berodia · Post by **Berodia** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:45 am

"...hasta que el fascismo vuelva a resucitar".

Yo creo más bien que nunca a muerto. Está ahí, latiendo en nuestros políticos, en todos, en menor o mayor medida, y en muchos de los "españoles de bien", esperando la ocasión...

Un saludo.

En España, independientemente de los problemas de xenofobia, bien a la vista esta ese fascismo por ejemplo en la represión contra todo aquel que porte una bandera republicana...

ayalgueru · Post by **ayalgueru** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 3:55 am

que quieres decir exactamente ?

quienes son esos espanoles de bien a lo que te refieres . es que ser un " espanol de bien " o un buen espanol ? es lo mismo que ser un fascista.

Es mas fascista desde leugo reprimir la manifestaciones de lealtad indetitaria individual sea estos de adhesion a espana , asturias o america ,,,

y lo de los banderas si que me deja flipao ,,, a que te refieres. No es mas bien la izquierda la unica que practica la violencia politica en espana ?

http://www.aguaron.net/iraq/sedes.jpg

http://estaticos.elmundo.es/elmundo/fot ... _dia_0.jpg

http://elperiodico.com/default.asp?idpu ... _PK=346734

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you leave me pretty flabergasted

who are this misterious "good spaniards" you refer to ? to feel spanish or indeed being spanish or american does not ammount to fascism no. It is more fascist to repress legimate feelings of belonging , yes even if they belong to "evil" nations such as the great satan that we all know spains is.

abut the spanish republic flag thing well you are entering the surreal there mmm

Right now in spain only the left engages in political violence , but I know facts are reactionary aren't they ?

http://www.aguaron.net/iraq/sedes.jpg

http://estaticos.elmundo.es/elmundo/fot ... _dia_0.jpg

http://elperiodico.com/default.asp?idpu ... _PK=346734

Post by **Art** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 1:39 pm

¿Ayalgueru, qué representan esas fotos?
http://www.aguaron.net/iraq/sedes.jpg
http://estaticos.elmundo.es/elmundo/fot ... _dia_0.jpg

Creo que ser fasista es una de las partes oscuras de ser humano, pero podemos superarlo si queremos.

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Ayalgueru, what do these photos depict?
http://www.aguaron.net/iraq/sedes.jpg
http://estaticos.elmundo.es/elmundo/fot ... _dia_0.jpg

I think that being fascist is one of the dark aspects of being human, but we can overcome it if we want to.

ayalgueru · Post by **ayalgueru** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 4:00 pm

I agree with you , at the end of the day of today we are freer and we live better than any point ever before

the first 2 lines correspondo to attack on PP ( spanish conservative party )
buildings performed by "peaceful" left militant demonstrators showing his disagreement with Aznar's involment in Iraq war.

the third line is more recent only a few weeks ago. In catalunya the elements of nationalist left regularly organise violent protest ( physical violence on people too ) against catalan PP de facto making their political campaign nearly impossible.

saludos