Asturian-American Migration Forum

After reading the text of my presentation at the February conference in Winter Park, my parents called me. My father, Isaac "Jack" Martínez reminded me a several stories of his childhood that I had left out:

1) My Uncle Joe ( José, the only one of the children born in Asturias) once shot his brother Victor Ángel, who had been annoying him, in the belly button with a bb gun.

2) My father once tried to cross a flooded creek on a rain-slicked log, slipped off and fell into the fast moving water. He was rescued by someone who grabbed him by the hair to pull him out.

3) My father once climbed a telephone pole all the way to the top when he was 5 or 6, then lost his grip about halfway during the descent and fell the rest of the way to the ground. My grandmother spanked him for this, since climbing telephone poles was not allowed.

4) My Uncle Mike (Miguel) got into a fight with another kid on the porch of a home in Spelter, and smashed his elbow threw the window glass. He ran home, got a butcher knife out of the kitchen, and went to the house of the boy with whom he had been fighting. Standing there, butcher knife in hand and dripping blood from his multiple cuts, pounded on the door. When the mother answered, he demanded that she he send her child out to Mike so he could kill him. My father reports that the mother fainted dead away.

5) Two of my uncles, Mike and Gabby (Gabriel) once were playing slaughter the pig in the basement of number 110 in Spelter. The family, of course slaughtered a pig every year, and they were well familiar with the process. Mike raised the ax over his head to use the blunt side as a hammer to stun the imaginary pig, and accidentally hit Gabby - who was behind him - in the forehead with the sharp edge of the ax, almost cutting away a large flap of skin. My father doesn't remember how his mother closed the wound, which was substantial.

There are lots of other stories as well, most considerably more colorful than those of my own childhood.

Just today, Ron González and I were talking about something similar.

It seems to me that today parents and grandparents want to give their kids and grandkids a risk-free, stress-free experience. That's not life as I know it.

My parents used to let us go out hiking or biking miles from home. They let us (or made us) walk to school and walk to and from events, even at night. They let us go to the swimming pool alone. They didn't go to see us play in our sports events, and they didn't feel like they had to enroll us in a bazillion sports and cultural activities.

Similarly, my father talks about his having a jon boat (early on, probably as a 10-12 year old) and taking business people across the Little Kanawha River in West Virginia during the spring floods -- in "flood stage" waters. He also went swimming in a river polluted with human feces. And he went for long walks and bike rides for many miles with other young friends, even staying overnight in the next county.

My mother's (Asturian) siblings have tales a lot like Bob's dad, El León.

What I'm suggesting is that my parents, and their parents before them, had enough to do managing their own lives and didn't lean so heavily on us kids for their own fulfillment. Parents today seem overly anxious about their kids' safety and well-being. Of course, you can't tell someone not to be anxious; that'd be futile. But all this worrying and public attention to child safety is, to my mind, a sign of our heightened overall anxiety as a culture. (It seems to be a global problem, too.)

A good deal of this anxiety is supported by commonly believed myths. For example, if you asked the average American, I bet many would tell you that it wasn't safe for kids to trick or treat for candy at Halloween because someone might try to poison them. There has apparently NEVER been a poisoning by a stranger. (But at least one parent has tried to poison their child!)
http://www.snopes.com/horrors/poison/halloween.asp

The sad part is that our fears are limiting the experiences children have today, and that we are unwittingly transmitting our anxieties to them. Ironically, even after all this hysteria, parents don't feel their kids are any safer!

Ours isn't a problem of child safety. No, we have a problem of generalized cultural anxiety. And this is just one way in which it manifests itself.

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on this.

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Hoy mismo, Ron González y yo estabamos hablando sobre algo similar. Me parece que hoy en día los padres y los abuelos desean dar sus hijos y nietos una experiencia libre de todo riesgo, libre de preocupaciones. Ésa no es la vida como lo sé.

Mis padres nos permitían que vamos por excursión de pie o en bicicleta hasta millas del hogar. Nos permitían (o nos obligaban) caminar a la escuela y caminar a muchos acontecimientos, incluso por la noche. Nos permitían ir a la piscina solo [sin adultos]. No fueron a vernos jugar en nuestros acontecimientos de deportes, y no se sentían que tuvieron que alistarnos en un bazillón [muchísimos] de equipos de deportes y actividades culturales.

Semejantemente, mi padre dice que tenía un bote a palo o remote [se llame un "jon boat"] (como joven, probablemente tenía 10-12 años) y llevaba a hombres del negocio a través del río de "Little Kanawha" en Virginia Occidental durante las inundaciones de primavera -- cuando estaba peligroso. Él también nadaba en un río contaminado con excrementos humanos. Iba en caminatas largos por bicicleta para muchas millas con otros amigos jóvenes, incluso permaneciendo durante la noche en el condado próximo.

Los hermanos (asturianos) de mi madre tienen muchos cuentos como los del padre de Bob, El León.

Lo que estoy sugiriendo es que mis padres, y sus padres antes de ellos, tenían bastante hacer en sus propias vidas y no se apoyaban tan pesadamente en nosotros sus hijos para su propia realización. Los padres se parecen hoy excesivamente ansiosos por la seguridad y el bienestar de sus hijos. Por supuesto, no se puede decir a alguien que no sea ansioso; sería en vano. Pero toda esta preocupación y atención pública a la seguridad de los niños es, a mi mente, una muestra de la aumentación general de la ansiedad en nuestra cultura. (Parece ser un problema global, también.)

Mucho de esta ansiedad es apoyado por mitos comúnmente creídos. Por ejemplo, si preguntaras a los americanos tipos, apostaría que muchos te dirían que está peligroso permitir que los niños van a "trick or treat" [los niños amenazan con una jugarreta si no reciben un regalo] para los caramelos en Halloween porque alguien puede intentar envenenarlos. Parece que NUNCA ha habido un envenenamiento por un desconocido. (Pero por lo menos un padre ha intentado envenenar a su niño!) http://www.snopes.com/horrors/poison/halloween.asp

Una cosa triste es que nuestros miedos están limitando las experiencias que los niños tienen hoy, y que estamos transmitiendo involuntariamente nuestras ansiedades a ellos. ¡Es irónico que incluso después de toda esta histeria, los padres no se sienten que sus hijos sean más seguros!

El problema nuestro no es de la seguridad de los niños. No, tenemos un problema de la ansiedad cultural generalizada. Y esto es sólo un modo en cuál se manifiesta.

Estaría interesado en oír tus pensamientos sobre esto.

My opinion on the subject is: Life for our Children and Grandchildren is no longer risk free.

My experiences growing up in Brooklyn, New York and spending summers in Moundsville, West Virginia were somewhat the same. In Brooklyn I could go out in the morning, come home for Lunch, and spend the entire day playing with my friends until it was time for Dinner. In Moundsville it was the same. On Friday night we would go uptown ot the local High School to see movies in the playground...then stop at Marshall Dairy for Ice Cream.

As a young teenager I would go into New York City with my friends...in fact, when I was about 18 to 21 I could meet friends who I worked with in New York at night...we would go to a Dance and I came home by Subway alone and no one bothered me.

It's funny but I was talking about this very thing the other day with some friends of mine. In the early 60's I was able to go to a local store and leave my son outside in the carriage and NO ONE would bother him.

Well now we are talking about an entirely different world. You have to be fearful...now we have the Internet where adults lure children into all kinds of things. Parents now have to monitor their children's computer use very carefully. . We have had problems in the Catholic Church with priests molesting our children. That was a place where you thought your child was safe. Now we have websites where you can find out if there any petiphiles living in your area...and most of the time there are.

The schools have to be locked down when the children are in. The playgrounds have to be monitored so no one is there that doesn't belong. Now we have both parents working and chiildren coming home to an empty house...latch key kids.

I don't think that parents are happy about the restrictions they have to put on their children...but its so very necessary if you want your child to be safe. I know I have a young Grandaughter and you can bet your last bottom dollar that we are sure she is never alone. It takes a second to grab a child. If you read the newspapers you can see I am right. Its better to be careful then sorry.

Sorry if I painted such a dim picture...but thats the world we live in unfortunately. Yes, I wish that the children today could enjoy our freedom but thats not possible...and I have to say I don't live in a Big City but in a suburb...and I might add a very quiet suburb, but then you never know.

Barbara

Barbara, what you've written fits perfectly with what I've said. Those are exactly the messages we get from the culture daily (newspapers, TV, magazines, friends, etc.).

So, the question is this: To what degree is any of this true? Is there, in fact, a greater percentage of child kidnappings, molestation, etc.? Or are we simply talking about it more and thus raising our anxieties more?

As the level of anxiety in the culture rises, the level of negative behavior is likely to rise, but I seriously doubt that it's as awful out there as we think.

It's really not "out there"; it's "in here" -- in our attitudes and the messages we feed ourselves.

The most difficult aspect of what I'm saying is that we'd have to ask good questions to figure out what's really happening. Most of us don't like to think or question what we're presented as reality. That's hard work and it's impossible to arrive at definitive answers. It's easier to sit back and let the TV think for us.

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Barbara, lo qué has escrito cabe perfectamente con lo que he dicho. Ésos son exactamente los mensajes que recibimos de la cultura diariamente (los periódicos, TV, las revistas, nuetros amigos, etc.).

Así pues, la pregunta es ésta: ¿Hasta cuál punto está cualquier parte de éste verdadero? ¿Hay, de hecho, un mayor porcentaje del secuestro de niños, del molestation, etc.? ¿O es simplemente que estamos hablando más sobre estas cosas y que así estamos levantando nuestras ansiedades más?

Como se aumenta el nivel de la ansiedad en la cultura, es probable que el nivel del comportamiento negativo se aumente también, pero dudo seriamente que sea tan horroroso por fuera [por las calles, "out there"] como pensamos.

No está realmente por fuera [por las calles, "out there"]; está dentro, aquí, ["in here"] -- en nuestras actitudes y en los mensajes que asimilamos.

El aspecto más difícil de lo que estoy diciendo es que tendríamos que preguntar buenas preguntas para calcular lo que realmente está sucediendo. La mayor parte de nosotros no nos apetece pensar o preguntar lo que se nos presenta como realidad. Ése es un trabajo difícil y es imposible llegar a respuestas definitivas. Es más cómodo sentarnos y dejar que la TV piense para nosotros.

I grew up in Niagara Falls, with considerably more freedom than most kids today have. It wasn't uncommon to leave home for the day early in the morning (mom packed a lunch) and not return until the sun was setting. Still, population density was very low, at least in our neighborhood adjacent to a park and a golf course, and everyone looked out for every else's kids. We ranged up to a half mile or so from home through vacant lots, swamps, woods, frozen creeks (they made a wonderful booming noise when walked on before the ice had frozen quite thick enough), dumped toxic waste, thunder storms (yes, I played under tall trees during thinder storms), etc. We searched for lost golf balls in the creek (and sold them back to the golfers), built forts and tree houses, and in general had a hell of a good time.

The world has - most unfortunately - become much more dangerous in ways that are more closely related to the evil and sickness inherent in our fellow citizens that to the landscape itself. There is no way that I would want my granddaughters to experience in the modern world in the way that I did my world 50 or 60 years ago. It simply isn't safe anymore.

Bob I so agree with you...and you know what its a shame that our Grandchildren can't experience the things that we did as children.

We have to realize the kind of world that we are lliving in. There are sick people all over waiting to take advantage of a child. Look what happened recently in Pennsylvania...to name just one incident.

I would like to tell you a recent incident that happened to my Husband.

We were in Hackensack at an Ice Skating Competition. My Grandaughter was there with my daughter and us...along with her skating friends and their families. After one of the events my Grandaughter and one of her friends were looking at the standings that were posted on the wall. My Husband went over to where they were and was looking at them too. All of a sudden a man, who he didn't recognize, came over and put his arms around the my Grandaughter's friends shoulder. My husband immediately reached over and put his arms around the girl. The man saw my husband and walked away.

End of story...he happened to be a New York City Detective and he was a cousin of the girls. He went over to her parents and commended my husband for the action he took...he said that many people just wouldn't bother. Her parents came over in tears and thanked my husband over and over. So you see, we always have to be alert as to what is going on around us.

So, we have to do everything in our power to keep our Children and Grandchildren free from whatever sick person is out there trying to get to them.

Barbara

Bob wrote:It simply isn't safe anymore.

How do we know that empirically?

How do we know that whether you're responding to an increased incidence of reporting or an increased incidence of negative behavior?

Let me first say, thank you for discussing this topic. I think it's a really important theme which is having a very deep impact on us.

Barbara, you've taken a positive incident and twisted it to be an example of a negative behavior.

The "stranger" with his arm around the girl was her cousin. And then your husband "protected" her. There's absolutely nothing evil about the story.

And yet your conclusion was:

Barbara wrote:So, we have to do everything in our power to keep our Children and Grandchildren free from whatever sick person is out there trying to get to them.

Do you see how the conclusion isn't supported by the story? Where was the danger?

This is the kind of mental process that almost everyone is participating in. It's irrational and illogical, but we think we're being very rational!

I understand what Barbara is saying and I agree with Art. Although it shouldn’t be this way we all part from the premise that ‘everybody’ is out to get us or our kids, because if we don’t and they do, we’ll never forgive ourselves. But, like Art said this attitude leads to erroneous conclusions and limits what the children are exposed to, it makes their world so much smaller. But it must be this way, if you had a 16 year old son working for a Congressman, could you image a safer place him? Untill someone like Foley shows up...

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Entiendo lo que dice Barbara y estoy de acuerdo con Art. Aunque no deberia ser asi, todos partimos de la premisa de que el resto del mundo tiene malas intenciones, porque si no hacemos eso y nosotros o nuestros hijos terminamos agraviados, nunca nos perdonariamos. Pero, como bien dijo Art esta actitud nos conduce a concluciones erradas, y eso limita las experiencias de nuestros hijos. Pero a de ser asi, si tuvieras un hijo de 16 años trabajando para un Congresista, podrias imaginar un lugar mas seguro para el? Hasta que aparece alguien como Foley...

Someday, our kids will have to step out into the world. Parents can't protect their children forever, although (judging by my family) it's clear that some try to.

Kids need to learn early on how to negotiate their world so they can lead fulfillling lives. Filling our kids with fear cripples them so they won't be able to step out maturely. And this anxiety cripples us so that we don't want to let go of them!

When its time for our kids to step out into the world...

They will be older and aware of whats around them.

I am not saying that we should fill our children with fear...but they have to be made aware of the perils in this world.

The incident I told you about was a positive one, true...but thats because how it turned out...he was her cousin. But, when this happened he had no way of knowing that he was a relative. So, he acted accordingly. How many times does this happen and no one steps up.

I wonder if you saw the TV show about something very similar. With the permission of the parents they had a young girl being grabbed by a man...the man was, I believe a Polilceman. The girl was screaming for help and saying that he was NOT her father. I can't tell you how many people walked by, looked and keep on going. Until finally...two young men walked by...they watched for a little while and realized this was not normal. They went for the man...he then showed his badge and the TV people came and told them about what was going on. You might say...it was a TV show but it shows you how people react to things. I don't want to get involved, etc. What if this man did grab that girl and God knows what he would do.

Please don't tell me that this isn't possible. Children today have to be aware of whats going on. You can't impress on them enough about the dangers today. Realize that this is NOT the time when we were children or our children were children.

Eli I was wondering who would mention Foley first. Yes, he did an awful thing and I hope that he gets the book thrown at him...it doesn't matter iwhat political affliliation he has he is one sick man...but then, how many are out there.

You can disagree with me all you want...its my choice to protect my Grandaughter from harm. Like it or not thats somethiing we owe them.

Barbara

How many times does this happen and no one steps up.

Exactly! How many times has it happened to anyone you know? I don't know of any cases among my friends and family.

I think that TV is one of the cause of this paranoid anxiety. TV execs know that human beings are fascinated by stories like the Jon Bennet Ramsey saga. Before TV our news media had much more info about local events and in small towns even simple things like birthday parties. You won't see that on TV!

Art,

You should consider yourself very lucky that you have never had a family member or friend in that kiind of a situation. But, that does not mean it never happens...and that we don't have to be vigiliant.

What about:

Amber Hagerman...the little girl who lived in New Jersey was selling Girl Scout Cookies to a neighbor...was grabbed sexually assaulted and killed. Now we have the Amber Alert.

Elizabeth Smart...little girl taken by a Cult...thankfully she was found alive.

Jessica Lundsford...the saddest of all...grabbed by a neighbor...locked in a trailer for who knows how long...sexually assaulted and brutally murder

TV paranoia anxiety...I really don't think so. We have to protect our children from these sexual predators...they are out there. There is a website that, if you put in your zip code, they will list the sex offenders in your area. You would be amazed as to how many of them are living among us...near schools, etc.

You know I would love the world to be the same as when I was a child and when my children were young...but thats not the world we live in today. I am not saying that every passing car has a potential kidnapper in it...or that everyone who talks to a child has something evil in mind. I am saying that its very important to make our children aware of whats around them today. Like it or not...thats the way it is...we can't sit with rose colored glasses thinking that everything is ok...and its the fault of newspapers, TV and magazines who sensationalize these things.

Barbara

The US has a population of nearly 300,000,000. You've given 3 names of people you don't know. I'm sure that there were others, but these three represent a 1 in 100 million chance of worst case brutality. That's not something that's happening regularly to kids. Sure, it happens. It has always happened. It may even be happening more frequently than in earlier decades. But what are the odds? You don't have to be "lucky" to make 1-to-100,000,000 odds. (On the other hand, those three little girls were clearly extremely unlucky.)

Many Americans will intervene like your husband did. We're not appreciating our own decency. What does it say about us and our country if we assume that the people around us are such miserable low lifes?

This is a media issue. I watched a little of the local TV news tonight. In the 10-15 minutes I saw there were reports on a guy accused of starving horses, a slipperly-talking farmer who "lost" 100 hogs that had been under quarantine for disease, a man who was shot on the street, a congressman accused inappropriate relations with a page. There was nothing uplifting, except possibly for the weather forecast and sports.

What appears on the news is what we want to see. If we weren't attracted to it and didn't keep watching it, they'd put something else on instead. We enjoy grotty soap operas, too. Something in us loves the problematic, as long as it's just on TV or in a movie or book. We'd rather not have it come knock on our front door at home.

It's no wonder that if any of us were to watch this sensational, disturbing media every night for a decade or three, it would have to have an effect on us. And now we're seeing exactly what that effect is: generalized anxiety and distrust of our neighbors.

My wife says maybe my not being a regular consumer of TV is why I don't see the world in such a negative light. I do read Newsweek and our twice weekly local paper, both of which have plenty of disturbing news, but I don't watch TV regularly. The violence of movies and the news bothers me for hours and even days after watching it.

NO I didn't know these 3 girls personally...but when something like that happens they become OUR children. You don't have to know them to fear what happened to them...and to not want that to happen to someone you love. I am not interested in statistics...there should be NO child abused.

I know there are more...there shouldn't be any! Those girls are the ones who stuck in my mind...looking at the pictures of those little girls is so very sad.

I almost never watch the news on ABC, NBC and CBS...I get my news from another source. I do read the newspapers and magazines...but I am very selective on what I read.

You are right for the most part some stations report all the sensational stories...because thats news and thats what they are anxious to get out. Of course, people watch it. But then, you can't stick your head in the sand and believe that there is NO evil in the world...because believe me there is.

No child should be at risk...or suffer what those little girls suffered...and many other have faced the same fate.

The killings in the schools...now whats that all about. Now we have 7 little girls murdered in Pennsylvania...then there was Columbine and others. So, we have to protect the schools in whatever way we have to. I know my Grandaughter goes to a school where there is a keen awareness of the dangers that face our children. Maybe nothing will ever happen there or any other school...but who wants to take the chance with our Children. I know I don't.

Then we have the teachers who take advantage of young children. Do you tell your child to be aware of teachers and if they make improper advances. I don't know if you do or not. But things like this have to stop...we have to make it clear to any teacher who takes advantage of a child will be dealt with harshly.

Art we can go around and around with this...you have your thoughts and I have mine...but I can assure you I will always go to the extreme if it will protect our children...

Barbara