Asturian-American Migration Forum

Hello there, I was told to look at this site by a cousin of mine whom I have just met recently through myspace. My grandfather was Raymond Rodríguez from Donora, PA and his father and mother were Lazara and María Alonzo Rodríguez. If there is anyone who can tell me more please contact me. Thank you.

-----------------
trans. Art

Hola, me dijó que vea esta página un primo mío que he encontrado recientemente a través de MySpace. Mi abuelo era Raymond Rodríguez de Donora, PA y su padre y su madre fueran Lazara Rodríguez y María Alonzo. Si hay alguien quien puede decirme más información, por favor contacteme. Gracias.

Hello Michael!

I certainly do remember you, but I'm sure you've changed since I last saw you. I remember your sister loved the Life cereal commercial- "He likes it! Hey Mikey!" and, well, Michael it was. Your dad used to take my brother Everett (who we also called Roddy... spelled differently from your dads) and I up to Lake Arthur to go fishing. Your mom would come along as well. I remember the whole family- your Grandmother and Grandfather, Uncle Helo and Aunt Carmy.
What a happy coincidence that there are three of us all researching our family tree! I'm digging and scratching, but moving along slowly all the same. Here is what I have so far-

Your Grandfather Raymond was born in Pennsylvania on Jan 19, 1919 and died Feb 1977
Your Grandmother Tomi was born Jun 28, 1913 in Makaweli, Kanai, Hawaii and arrive on the mainland in Los Angeles on Dec 14, 1945 on the ship Yarmouth. She died in Oct 1993
Your Great-Grandfather Lazaro Rodriguez was born in Spain on June 15, 1994 and died Feb 1968
Your Great-Grandmother Maria Alonzo Rodriguez was born in spain 1883 and died in 1919

As I turn up new information I will keep both you and Brian posted.

Welcome, Michael!

Rich and Michael, what is the correct spelling the names of your ancestors? Rich's spelling of "Lazaro" strikes me as a better spelling than "Lazara". And was María's name "Alonzo" or "Alonso"? It seems to me that "Alonso" would be more common.

There were more Alonso's in Asturias, when I searched here:
http://www.ine.es/daco/daco42/nombyapel/nombyapel.htm
Of course, that doesn't tell us what your grandmother's name was!

Below I'll post the 50 most common first last names for those born in Asturias.

----------------------

¡Bienvenido, Michael!

Michael y Rich, ¿cuál es la ortografía correcta de los nombres de vuestros antepasados? La ortografía de Rich, "Lázaro", me parece mejor ortografía que "Lazara". Deletreó el apellido de María "Alonzo" o "Alonso"? Me parece más común "Alonso".

Hay más de Alonso en Asturias, cuando busqué aquí:
http://www.ine.es/daco/daco42/nombyapel/nombyapel.htm
¡Por supuesto, no dice nada sobre el apellido de tu abuela!

A continuación voy a fijar los 50 premier apellidos más comunes de los nacidos en Asturias.

Our Great-Grandfathers name was Lazaro. As far as the Alonzo/Alonso, the information my dad gave me had the name spelled Alonzo. However, I just located the manifest of the ship that Lazaro arrived on (the SS Umbria, arrived in New York on Feb 19, 1906 from Liverpool, England) and it stated that he was going to Cherryvale, KS to join his brither-in-law Jose Alonso. Or at least it looks to be an 'S'. There are a whole bunch of Maria Alonzo/Alonso's, but I haven't been able to locate my Great-Grandmother yet. The only one that looked promising had her listed as being born in Cuba, but a census that I found had her being born in Spain.

In many the older Spanish/Asturian documents I have read, the lower case "z" does not have a loop that extends below the bottom of the rest of the letters, such as a, s, h and c. Confusing an "s" with a "z" may be quite possible.

Also, orthography often varies over time and geography. The Sea of Cortez, for example, does not reflect the original spelling of the surname, Cortés. But a native speaker of Spanish from areas that pronounce "z" as "s" rather than as the English "th" in "this" may well hear Cortés as Cortez, or Alonso as Alonzo.

If your dad thinks it was spelled "Alonzo," that's probably right.

I'm pretty sure from the little I've seen that ships' manifests and Ellis Island records are often wrong, especially in spellings. I've heard stories that the Ellis Island clerks sometimes changed names to make them easier for English-speakers.

Even details that you would think were easy to get right may not be correct. As I recall, there was a child listed as traveling with the ancestors of Ron González who Ron doesn't know anything about. Who knows? Maybe they were sneaking in someone else's child.

----------------------

Si piensa tu padre que se escribe "Alonzo", es probablemente así.

Estoy bastante seguro de lo poco que he visto que los manifiestos de los buques' y los registros de Ellis Island están a menudo erróneos, sobre todo en la ortografía. He oído historias de que los empleados de Ellis Island a veces cambiaron la ortografía de nombres para que sean más fáciles para los angloparlantes.

Incluso los detalles que pensaría serían fáciles notar correctamente pueden ser incorrecto. Según recuerdo, los documentos de Ellis Island, creo, donde enumeran a los antepasados de Ron Ron González, notaron a un niño a quien Ron no conoce. ¿Quién sabe? Tal vez se le colaron a un hijo de otra familia.

Mystery solved! My mother was able to find the information she copied from the tombstone and it is indeed spelled with an 'S'- Alonso. And let me tell you, Maria Alonso (or even Maria Rodriguez) seems to be quite a common name!

As far as information being misspelled or incorrect, I've run into that quite a bit already. For instance, I couldn't locate a particular census I was looking for. Turns out that the transcriber had Rodriguez as Rodnguez, and Lazaro as Cagaro. Additionally, dates of birth seem to be rather fluid, whether because of a language barrier or carelessness, I don't know. I guess the lesson to be learned here is be patient and keep searching.

Michael, here is some additional information I have uncovered so far. Maria Alonso Rodriguez arrived in the US on June 12, 1907 aboard the Morro Castle; port of departure was Havana, Cuba and arrival was in New York.
She was coming to join her husband, Lazaro in Cherryvale, Kansas. The manifest lists her place of birth as Oviedo, Spain which, as Bob pointed out, is the modern province of Asturias. As far as I can make out, at the time Lazaro was living with his brother-in-law (Maria's brother) Jose Alonso.

My grandparents also went to Cherryvale KS when they came to the EEUU in 1913, and there are Alonsos in my family. My grandfather's father was José Martínez Alonso, a native of Muros, who was 46 years old and living in Salinas when my grandfather was born in 1894. José's mother, Aurelia Alonso, was also a native of Muros, and was living in Salinas in 1894.

Hey Bob, any chance this could be the same Alonso family? Your information would certainly save me a lot of time and teeth gnashing!

Gravestones can be wrong, too. A family I know argued among themselves about whether to have their mother's gravestone corrected. (I think it had a wrong date on it.) The most powerful family members didn't want to bother with it, so I don't think they had the correction made.

It sounds like even if Alonso isn't the most common spelling, there are plenty of them. In my family, there was a María Conde Alonso and her mother María Alonso, both from San Cristóbal, Avilés.

Hm... San Cristóbal and Salinas are very close. I wonder if we're related, Bob?

----------------------

Lápidas pueden ser erróneas, también. Una familia que conozco sé discutió sobre si debe tener la lápida de su madre corregida. (Creo que tenía un fecha en error.) Los más poderosos miembros de la familia no quisieron molestarse con el problema, así que creo que no pidieron por la corrección.

Parece que, incluso si Alonso no es el más común ortografía, hay un montón de ellos. En mi familia, había sido una María Conde Alonso y su madre María Alonso, ambos de San Cristóbal, Avilés.

Um... San Cristóbal y Salinas son cercanos. ¿Me pregunto si somos relacionados, Bob?

hey rich,
i kinda figured it was alonso with an s. problem was i couldn't get anything through the death index because she died before ss#. but yeah Eloina told me she died right after welo (ray) was born. which was definately 1919. el also told me that when tia julia was alive she was the only one who wrote to the asturian family members. she also said that when welo had his stroke the only way for him to remember his family was to come to your grandmas and look through the boxes of photos and such. i dont know if your dad or if georgie has them but if so that should help alot too. i thought about calling your dad but i didnt know. you said that you spoke to my mom and sara? you should get my number from them and we could talk sometime. i saw your mom and dad like 2 years ago, but i should really come see them sometime. but man i havent seen you or roddy in a couple decades. also if you have birth and death dates can you forward them to me. i have a family tree on ancestry open for public view and the more i can add the better. i started with immediate family and went from there and now it is huge. also el told me that your dad and emily had another brother and a sister that died young, can you get me that info so i can add that to your grandmas side of the tree, i also need you, roddy, your dad and mom, and wives and kids and such. i am so glad that you and brian and me are all into this. i thought when my dad died that i was going to lose touch with our family history, but now i know that it won't happen. you know my mothers brother started his own site just for his family tree, we should think of that and see how far we can take it. with our spanish family and my japanese family and your moms and everyone else i bet it could be big. also if anyone can direct me to some search tools i'd like that. i dont really want to pay but if i have to i will.

hey art or bob,

can you tell me how it was that we wound up referring to our grandparents as welo or wela? i thought it was abuelo or abuela or something like that.

Hi Michael,

Maybe someone in the forum has a good answer for you...but, I always referred to my Grandparents as Welo and Wela...I always thought it was just short for Abuela and Abuelo.

Barbara Alonso Novellino

Richard, Michael,

Found Angel Alonso's SSN # on the death index.
Spelled according to them with an S.
His DOB 22 mar 1896
DOD was Jun 1969
in Donora.
This would have been "Angel at the Bridge" as my mom refered to him as. This would have been Maria's brother. Mom did not realize that he was her great-uncle. No one every explained the relation to her growing up and it wasn't until she read the posts that she made the connection. She knew there was a family connection but did not realize how close.
According to mom (Sally) she thought that Lazaro and Uncle Helo were buried at the monongahela Cemetery.
She also said she thought that Maria was buried in the Langeloff??,PN cemetary.
A visit or phone call to the cemetery may reveal more names in a possible family plot. They may have records of other releative that handled arrangements.
Mom is going to visit her brother Art in Mcallen(Texas) this weekend. We will try to get all the informatin he has while she is down there. She said that he did have more written than she can recall.
Living in south Texas, Spanish spoken around me all the time. I speak enough to get by but most of what I speak is Tex-mex instead of proper spanish.
If we can all pick the brains of our respective elders. We can work lateraly first, bring together what we know and then hopefully all work backwards and find which branch of exactly what tree we fell from.
Stories connect people to places. In talking with my mom I have found a lot of information through her stories of life in Donora. The information has proven more helpful than she thought. Just like "Angel at the bridge" and Uncle "Helo" share the same name, the stories that we hear help to separate who's who and gives meaning to the past.
Also, Richard, Mom said that she did recall there being a cousin/cousin connection with the Rodriguez that married a Rodriguez in this particular instance.
Beyond all of this interesting family history is just plain history. I have been reading up on that as well to better understand the reasons and effects of our familiy's migration. Wonder if I should buy a giant map and a bunch of push pins?!!!

This is great! Keep it coming. We will too.

Brian

Richard,

What search sites are you using?

The LDS Family search.org has been helpful so far for me.

Brian