Asturian-American Migration Forum

Posted: **Sat Jun 07, 2008 2:48 pm**

This past Monday, June 2, 2008, Angler (code name for Dick Cheney, the outgoing-but-confidential US Vice President), made a pretty crass aside about West Virginia at the National Press Club in Washington DC.

He was explaining his family's genealogy and paused on the fact that he had Cheneys on both sides of his family as far as the 17th century. In an attempt at humor--and because he is not up for reelection--he referred to a possible incident of inbreeding in his family with the pithy sentence: "...and we're not even from West Virginia."

You can read the full article in Slate and see the original video of his speech:

http://www.slate.com/id/2192830/

People in Asturias are probably unaware of the fact that West Virginia, and the Southern Appalachians in general, have long been seen as backwaters. The myth about 'slackjaw' communities where intermarriage was common was revived in the 1960s when the Kennedy brothers campaigned there and were confronted with impoverished mountain communities.

There has always been intermarriage in the mountain valleys of Asturias and Galicia. But how much truth is there to the fact that the genetic pool is not as rich as in other regions of Spain?

As far as I know, in my own family intermarriage among cousins was actually the norm. In La Puela (Pola de Allande), the Zardains married other blacksmith families further upriver if they married outside, mainly the Ochoas up in Penaseita. After many years, when I returned to La Puela, I was actually mistaken for a cousin I did not even know, a Vega Zardain living in Uvieu/Oviedo.

Still, how much of this is just fancy and anthropology, as opposed to real genetic affinity?

Read this piece from The Explainer:

The Explainer wrote:At the National Press Club on Monday, Vice President Dick Cheney noted that his maternal grandmother is descended from someone named Cheney, then quipped, "So we had Cheneys on both sides of the family—and we don't even live in West Virginia." (Click here for a video.) In response, Sen. Robert Byrd of West Virginia railed against the veep, accusing him of "astounding ignorance toward his own countrymen." How'd West Virginia get a reputation for inbreeding?

Exaggeration-prone outsiders. In the 1880s and 1890s, writers such as Mary Noailles Murfree and John Fox Jr. traveled across Appalachia, looking for "local color," and overstated the degree to which mountain populations lived in isolation. During the same time period, missionaries reported pervasive ignorance and poverty, with large families living together in ramshackle cabins. The notion of widespread inbreeding was at least in part the result of crude assumptions about how these isolated forest people might have been perpetuating their communities.

It's true that, through the 19th century, transportation networks developed slowly in the rugged, westernmost portion of Virginia (incorporated as West Virginia in 1863). The area was never entirely cut off, but many people lived in remote "closed communities" with little incoming or outgoing migration. Research on intrafamilial marriage in such enclaves is slim. In 1980, anthropologist Robert Tincher published a study titled "Night Comes to the Chromosomes: Inbreeding and Population Genetics in Southern Appalachia," based on 140 years' worth of marriage records. He concluded that "inbreeding levels in Appalachia … [are neither] unique [n]or particularly common to the region, when compared with those reported for populations elsewhere or at earlier periods in American history."

Stereotypes about West Virginian breeding practices have long been linked to the state's poverty. When Eleanor Roosevelt visited West Virginia mining towns in the 1930s, national newspapers ran pictures of rundown shacks and barefoot kids in rags, which left a lasting impression of the state as a backwater. West Virginians became the prototypical "hillbillies," and incest served as a crude "scientific" explanation for their downtrodden social condition.

In more recent memory, the 2003 film Wrong Turn helped perpetuate the inbreeding stereotype. Set in West Virginia, it features cannibalistic mountain men, horribly disfigured from generations of incest. Then, in 2004, Abercrombie & Fitch released a T-shirt emblazoned with a map of the Appalachian state and the words "It's all relative in West Virginia." In February, a casting director for the upcoming thriller Shelter put out a call for extras with "unusual body shapes, [and] even physical abnormalities" to depict West Virginia mountain people.

For the record, West Virginia has strict anti-incest laws. Only adopted cousins are allowed to marry, while in Vermont, Virginia, and a handful of other states, first cousins can tie the knot.

Got a question about today's news? Ask the Explainer.

Explainer thanks Edwin Arnold of Appalachian State University, Anthony Harkins of Western Kentucky University, and David Hsiung of Juniata College.

Juliet Lapidos is a Slate assistant editor.

Posted: **Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:01 pm**

Is,
Thanks for your post. I've been so mad about the VP remarks I though it better if I cool off before posting. Do you remember when John Edwards said something about the Cheney daughter? Mrs Cheney was outraged and she just sat there and laughed when that "babayu" made his remarks. It is sad when a man that holds the second highest office in this country makes a fool of himself in front of, not only the country, but the world. Is it any wonder that Bush and Cheney only have a 25% approval rating? That is also sad. Yep, the 25% must be their family.

Posted: **Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:44 pm**

The truth is that we are all inbred to one degree or another (consider low population size coupled with low population mobility - the situation for most of human history), but when we talk about inbreeding we usually refer to close inbreeding, as risk over and above that of the population at large.

One of the early studies on human inbreeding involved combing through European Catholic church records for marriages (first cousin marriages required a dispensation and had to be recorded as such), birth, baptism and death records. The children born of first cousin matings had shorter lifespans that other children who were not as inbred. First cousins share 1/16 of their genes by reason of descent from a know common ancestor, to the risk if a deleterious gene meeting itself is higher than in the population and large.

First cousin marriage were quite common in Victorian England, however, and in royal families, for the simple reason that they kept wealth and power within families. Charles Darwin, who married his first cousin Emma Wedgewood (and some of their common ancestors were also relatives of one another), is perhaps the most famous example, and he expressed his worries about his inbred family in some of his writings.

It's interesting to examine the highly inbred royal pedigree of Carlos II, and take note of his obviously abnomal traits and behavior.

Still, inbreeding is relative, and we are all inbred, but don't know about it. When the population was small and mostly rural, the chance of marrying a relative without knowing about the genetic relationship was relatively high. In essence, inbreeding increases homozygosity by common descent, both for "good" and for "bad" genes.

One wonders if Cheney any his minions have given any though to the tiny gene pools of the original English settlers of the current EEUU?

Posted: **Sun Jun 08, 2008 4:12 pm**

I am, to say the least, extremely offended by the comments of Cheney (aka Darth Vader). Just another example of how our current "leaders" have appealed to the lowest common denominator of American "pop" culture and beliefs. The whole lot of them, George W., Cheney, Karl Rove etc have, in my opinion ruined this country and have made me ashamed to be an American. Good leaders appeal to the best in their countrymen...this "rouge's gallery" has always done the opposite. Talk about a detrimental gene-pool!! Can't wait to get rid of them!!

To my friends Ron, Suronda, Bob and others whose American roots are in WV....please be assured that there are some of us around who don't get taken in this stereotyping. As Bob and Paul have pointed out, we are all "in-bred" to some degree, but WV is no different than anywhere else. As a third-generation native of Tampa, I relate to your frustrations. Tampa was/is, among Florida cities, an anomaly. It was a somewhat "poorer" industrial city of immigrants, set against a backdrop of largely wealthy or upper middle-class retirees across most of Florida. As such, we were considered "different" and in many ways looked down upon. Also, I am frustrated by the stereotype that all Floridians are from "somewhere else" and that no Florida cities have a sense of "place" or history. Our poor, immigrant ancestors, through their hard work and determination, created places of true character and significance... much better than bland, contrived "cookie-cutter" communities.

Abrazos to all.

Tony Carreno

Posted: **Sun Jun 08, 2008 4:32 pm**

Bob & Is
It is true that history tell us that inbreeding was common Victorian England. My complaint is not with history, but with someone who singles out our state as an inbred state. The people in the room all laughed, as if to approve of his so-called joke. As for me, the biggest joke in the room was that "babayu", Cheney.

Posted: **Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:16 am**

And then there's political/financial inbreeding. That occurs when people and groups who share similar financial interests (like oil and gas corporations and Bush and Cheney) create deals that favor themselves at the expense of the nation as a whole, and especially at the expense of the little people. And for a variant of "slack jaw", try getting one of these "inbreds" to own up to their crimes!

---------------

Y también hay la endogamia política y financiera. Eso ocurre cuando las personas y grupos que comparten intereses económicos (como la industria de petróleo y gas y Bush y Cheney) crean acuerdos que favorecen a sí mismos a expensas de la nación y, especialmente, a expensas de las personas comunes. Y para ver una variante de "slack jaw" [mandíbula floja o boca abierta: una supuesta síntoma de estupidez por causa de endogamia], intenta obtener que una de estas "inbreds" [persona quien resulta de endogamia] admita de sus crímenes!

Posted: **Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:05 pm**

Ron Gonzalez wrote:Bob & Is
It is true that history tell us that inbreeding was common Victorian England. My complaint is not with history, but with someone who singles out our state as an inbred state. The people in the room all laughed, as if to approve of his so-called joke. As for me, the biggest joke in the room was that "babayu", Cheney.

The biggest joke in the room was that West Virginia's electoral college votes put that a-hole into office...twice.

Posted: **Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:49 pm**

Xose
Yes, it's true the state went Republican twice, as did the country. Don't think of all the state as Republican or inbred. You can't blame all of us in West Virginia for the country's mistakes. We are not inbred or all Republican. We all voted our conviction; you win some, you lose some.

Posted: **Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:51 pm**

You lose some and win some, I agree, Ron. But some are much more likely to end on the losing side than others.

A friend from Baltimore brought me The New York Times from June 3, 2003, to Paris. And lo and behold, there was Dick Cheney (Angler-confidential-outgoing) on p. A21, next to the National Briefing.

The subeditors at the NYT titlled the story: Cheney Discloses His Lighter Side. And reporter Sheryl Gay Stolberg labels Cheney's aside about West Virginia as a 'wisecrack'. The article is all about how Cheney actually may have a sense of humor behind his 45-degree sidelong grin. At the expense of West Virginia, of course.

Here are the last 2 paragraphs from the article:

"So we had Cheneys on both sides of the family -- and we don't even live in West Virginia," the vice president deadpanned. (The state's longtime Democratic senator, Robert C. Byrd, later blasted the comment as a "pitiful" example of Mr. Cheney's "trademark arrogance.")

As the audience burst out laughing, Mr. Cheney added, "You can say these things when you're not running for re-election."

This reminded me, and you may find this interesting, Ron, of the way the Spanish press often portrays Asturians and Galicians.

Usually, they are picturesque, uncouth and not exactly refined. The truly refined, for the Madrid-based press like El Pais to El Mundo (mainstream newspapers in Spain), are either the Basques or the Catalans.

The reputation of Asturians is of rough-hewn peasant types from the northwest whose very primitiveness or lack of education makes them 'endearing'. Thus, the patronizing comments you are likely to hear from people in Madrid. We are harmless, the implication being slightly idiotic. Sound familiar?

Posted: **Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:38 am**

Ron Gonzalez wrote:Xose
Yes, it's true the state went Republican twice, as did the country. Don't think of all the state as Republican or inbred. You can't blame all of us in West Virginia for the country's mistakes. We are not inbred or all Republican. We all voted our conviction; you win some, you lose some.

I'm very proud that my home county, Fayette, repeated the old refrain in 2000 and 2004: better dead than red!

As for the inbred thing, it really pisses me off when people start in on that. Idiots, the lot of them. (And there seem to be a disproportionate number of them in my adopted state of MD.)

Posted: **Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:48 am**

Just last weekend, I was at a party in an affluent neighborhood in Gainesville, Florida. Someone inquired where I was raised. When I said "West Virginia", the person laughed in front of a group of people and said, "And you admit that!" Then came all of the in-breeding jokes.

This was so distasteful. I've decided that in the future, I'm going to politely tell anyone who makes these comments that West Virginia is a wonderful state, and I'm proud to call it my home state!

I've lived in Virginia, Texas and Florida as an adult. Believe me, I've experienced plenty of rednecks in all of those states.

Posted: **Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:04 pm**

It's really amazing that people in this day and age feel that that kind of thing is appropriate. Imagine if you had said, "I'm Jewish," and all the jewish jokes started coming out...unimaginable, for good reason. Yet, somehow the WV jokes are open season.

Posted: **Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:40 pm**

Xose wrote: Imagine if you had said, "I'm Jewish," and all the jewish jokes started coming out...unimaginable, for good reason. Yet, somehow the WV jokes are open season.

Yes, and imagine they were not only jokes, but also the retinue of 'anecdotes' that come along with the 'jokes' about Jews...

Russia is an interesting example of a society without any checks or balances in that respect. Jokes about Jews, Muslims, people from the Caucasus, Turks, Americans, Yakuts, Lithuanians, Estonians, Latvians. Ukrainians, Brits, Gays/Lesbians, carpet sellers and NASA astronauts are all fair game. Did I forget someone?

The shield some people in that society, particularly the revanchist types that populate Kremlin politics, is that political correctness is an American invention and thus a form of meta-tyranny.

For this type of public persona in contemporary Russia, it is a license to launch an attack, usually against scapegoat groups, all the while using the anti-americanism as a truism and banner.

Anyway, glad the Cheney comments will someday serve as a history of bigotry in our country as recently as 2008.

Posted: **Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:40 am**

There's a very interesting article in Newsweek this week on Appalachia and these stereotypes. The section about the origins of the stereotypes is especially helpful.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/143759

-------------------
En Newsweek esta semana, hay un artículo interesante sobre Appalachia y estos estereotipos. La sección sobre los orígenes es especialmente útil.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/143759

Asturian-American Migration Forum

Debunking the incest myth in West Virginia

Debunking the incest myth in West Virginia

Florida