Asturian-American Migration Forum

When I start getting annoyed with the views of others, I have to remind myself that I am not the sole repository of Truth. What really makes me angry are opinions that are completely irrational, rather than those that are merely opposed to my own.

Hi, Barbara and all,

I find it comical that when we take time to compose a thoughtful response we may appear cooly unflappable, whereas initially we were just as emotional as the next yappy puppy!

I'll go one step further. The idea that we can separate intellect and emotion is an illusion. The truth is that it's impossible to prevent our emotions from tainting our thought. Although we may not be able to see this in ourselves, we can more easily see it in others. So, for this reason alone, we really do have to be tolerant of each other. We can't assume that even our best intellectual efforts are wholly trustworthy.

Leonard Cohen had a line in one of his songs that spoke a piece of the truth. It went something like: "... I'm standing in the mud with you...."

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Hola, Barbara y todos,

¡Lo encuentro cómico que cuándo tardamos un rato para componer una respuesta pensativa podemos aparecer calmas y imperturbables, mientras que al principio éramos tan emocionales como cualquier cachorro ladridoso!

Iré un paso más. La idea que podemos separar el intelecto y la emoción es una ilusión. La verdad es que es imposible impedir a nuestras emociones corromper nuestro pensamiento. Aunque es posible que no seamos capaces de ver esto en nosotros, sí, podemos verlo en otros más fácilmente. Entonces por esta razón solo, la verdad es que tenemos que ser tolerantes el uno del otro. No podemos asumir que incluso nuestros esfuerzos intelectuales mejores son totalmente de confianza.

Leonardo Cohen tenía una línea en una de sus canciones que hablaron un trozo de la verdad. Fue algo así: "... Estoy de pied en el fango con tigo .... "

Can't help but wonder about the name of this thread...

Yeah, I noticed that, too. Kind of funny.

When you type in a title for a thread it allows you to type in more letters than it will actually display. It really says "... Happy Holidays". I'm sure this was never a rap song. (In rap songs, "ho is used to mean "woman", but it comes from "whore". So "ho" is considered by many to be unpleasant and disrespectful.)

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Sí, lo noté también. Es gracioso (un poco).

Cuando tecleas un título para un hilo, la systema te permite teclear más letas que en realidad va a mostrar. El título de verdad dice "... Happy Holidays" [Felices Fiestas]. Estoy seguro que nunca era una canción de rap. (En canciones de rap, "ho" se dice para significa "mujer", pero deriva de "whore" [puta]. Por eso, muchos consideran que "ho" es una palabra fea y despectivo.)

This is probably a dumb question (I don't mean any jeering) but why is a minor event like Chanukah being given the same treatment as Christmas, which after all celebrates the birth of the Son of God according to Christian tradition? Isn't Passover the truly major Jewish celebration? If so, why is it absolutely ignored? Because it doesn't take place around Christmas? I'm just not sure what to make of it.
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Esta es probablemente un pregunta tonta (no es mi intención picar a nadie), pero por qué un suceso menor como Janucá recibe el mismo tratamiento que Navidad, que despues de todo es la celebración del nacimiento del hijos de Dios, según la tradición cristiana. No es la Pascua la principal fiesta de los judíos? Entonces por qué nadie le presta atención? Porque no se celebra más o menos al mismo tiempo que las Navidades? No sé que pensar de estas incongruencias.

Terechu, I think you're right on all counts.

It's widely known, by those who care, that Hanukkah is a minor holiday. It's the fact that it comes near Christmas (the same day this year), and a commonly-held desire to be inclusive that leads many in the US to talk of Channakah and Christmas in the same phrase. Many religious traditions celebrate holidays during this period. The season isn't exclusive; at least not in the US.

Of course, if you link this issue to those in the thread on fundamentalism, you could say that the problem is simply that fundamentalism needs an opponent (or twenty), and one of its latest opponents is modernity itself. So this whole debate is us stupidly getting pulled into the anxiousness of fundamentalists!

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Terechu, pienso que tienes razón sobre todas las cuentas.

Mucha gente aquí saben, a menos los quienes se preocupan, que Hanukkah es una fiesta menor. Es el hecho que Hanukkah viene cerca de la Navidad (el mismo día este año), y un deseo comúnmente sostenido de incluir todos que conducen a muchos en EU hablar de Channakah y Navidad en la misma frase. Muchas tradiciones religiosas celebran fiestas durante este período. La estación no es exclusiva; al menos no en EU.

Desde luego, si se une esta cuestión con aquellos en el hilo sobre el fundamentalismo, se podría decir que el problema es simplemente que el fundamentalismo necesita a un opositor (o veinte), y uno de sus últimos opositores es la modernidad sí mismo. ¡Entonces este debate entero está compuesto de nosotros tontamente tirado en el ansioso de fundamentalistas!

Hi Terechu, Good question. From what I have read about Judaism, it is true that Hannukah is a minor holiday, especially in relation to Passover. On the other hand, it is the basis for the gift-giving in Jewish families in December, so even though it is a minor holiday, it is their December religious holiday. In a multicultural society like the U.S., we have to take into account that we are not all the same religion. I don't think that we're making a big fuss about Hannukah as much as that we are recognizing that they are celebrating a different religious holiday, as minor as it may be within the context of their religion.

Theoretically speaking, you could make a good case that Easter should be the major Christian holiday, but in practice, Christmas gets much more attention, energy, and excitement. Christians are aware of Passover during Easter, because that's the religious holiday that Jesus and his disciples were celebrating during Holy Week. We don't celebrate Hannukah, however. JoAnne
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Hola Terechu, Buena pregunta. He leido que sí, Januká es una fiesta minor, especialmente en relación a la Pascua. No obstante, es la base para el intercambio de regalos en las familias judeas en diciembre. Aunque sea una fiesta minor, queda la fiesta suya. En una sociedad multicultural como la nuestra, tenemos que darnos cuenta de que no seamos todos de la misma religión. No creo que prestemos mas atención a Januká que a la Pascua. Es que estamos reconociendo que los judeos celebran una fiesta religiosa diferente, aunque sea una fiesta minor en el contexto de su religión.

En teoría, podríamos decir que la Semana Santa debería ser la fiesta principal de los cristianos, pero en práctica, la Navidad recibe mucho mas atención, energía, y ánimo. Durante la Semana Santa, los cristianos se dan cuenta de la Pascua, porque era esa fiesta que celebraron Jesus y sus discípulos. En contraste, los cristianos no celebran Januká.

¡Espero que use los acentos mejor que antes! JoAnne

I agree with JoAnne's assessment of the reason why a relatively minor holiday, Chanukah, has been elevated in status, but I think there are additional reasons. First, kids of all religions attend the same public schools, so there is undoubtedly pressure brought by the Jewish kids to make more of Chanukah celebration because they know about the gift given orgy that accompanies Christmas and don't want to miss out. And who could resist making their kids happy.

Second, it preserves Jewish tradition in the face of a culture that is largely (nominally at least) Christian. This is important because it make the point that different people celebrate different "religious" holidays, and creates a kind of equality among holidays that occur at more or less the same time, and helps make people aware of each other's traditions.

Finally, there are very many families of mixed religious background in the EEUU, and many of them celebrate the holidays of both religions. This is sometimes because both religions are practiced, and sometimes because they simply want to expose the kids to the richness of both traditions.

Our granddaughters are of no particular religion, but celebrate both Christmas and Chanukah because people of both religions are among their ancestors. So after opening the Christmas presents under the tree at their house and having dinner, they each got to light one of the candles in the menorah, one the "helper" candle and one the first. Adam donned a yarmulke he bought in Nantucket (decorated with whales no less - Nantucket was a whaling town for many years) for the occasion and read the traditional prayer in Hebrew (which he does not speak - he used an English transliteration.). The three "Christian" grandparents and the sole "Jewish" grandfather were all there for both celebrations (none of us practice any religion). The girls had a wonderful time with both celebrations, and will grow up aware of their full heritage.

It is not at all unusual for my Jewish co-workers to wish me a Merry Christmas. I wish them a Happy Chanukah.

Bob, if a boy of Jewish descent wearing a yarmulke with whales which he bought in Nantucket celebrates Chanukah, wouldn't that really be called "Nantukah"? Now that wouldn't be minor--that would be a whale of a holiday! Just playing, Bob. You painted an interesting picture there. JoAnne